The "Shy Salsero" email on the Toronto Salsa Scene

January 19, 2001 revised

info@TOsalsa.com


Hello Readers, I've included an update from the "Shy Salsero"
on the Toronto Scene for 2001!

"The Shy Salsero" wrote...
Rene's response
A Salsera's response
(8/23/00)
"The Shy Salsero" Update for the New Year (1/4/01)
Old-Timer's Response to the August 23rd Email (1/15/01)
Rose Knows response to "cliques" (1/19/01)
Rose Knows response to "dancing with others"(1/19/01)


Intro from Rene Delgado of United Salseros

I'd like to share this email I've recently received from one of our readers. I'd like for all of you to read this and think what it was like when you first started out. I'd also like the instructors here in Toronto who are on my email list to remember that they also had to start as beginners. I'd also like to have the students/dancers remember that the instructors either do this full time or have a full time job and teach part time. This is also their down time where the can just relax or let loose with people they enjoy dancing with. I will take the shy salseros view to mind and will try to introduce the new and current dancers at Tequila Lounge, a United Salseros promotional event every Tuesday.


"the shy salsero" wrote:

What follows are a few thoughts on the Salsa scene. Someone somewhere has to put their neck on the line and indicate where things MAY be wrong. I hope you will find them thought provoking and not consider them just a whining complaint.

I enjoy salsa, and I would love the scene to be stronger and more active than it is even now in Toronto. I am also prepared to put effort in to help where I can. The cliche 'united we stand, divided we fall' is apt in many ways. What is the turnover of newcomers, who have a few lessons and then leave. It is a truism that it is the beginners and newcomers who are the life blood of any scene.

The regulars are the power in the scene and the experienced dancers and instructors are those who can direct the scene to bigger and better things. In that, I believe that groups such as United Salseros can be highly important and valuable. Montreal, two different courses? And a shy Salseros perception of the Toronto Salsa Scene.

I arrived early on Saturday, registered and joined the workshop. All the sessions were on 2, as most people there seemed to dance on 1, confusion reigned supreme for many. The first session started well with a basic introduction and a routine that progressively got harder. Those struggling had another instructor on the floor to follow for the earlier part of the routine. Sessions after this just seemed to get harder and many people further to the rear were making negative comments. The instructors seemed to focussing on a vocal group in the front row, demonstrating directly to them on repeated occassions and then moving onto more complex steps. I found this comfusing as it is well known that people tend not to want to make a fuss and slow others down.

In England I found the Salsa scene to be helpful and considerate, with the instructors (those demonstrating or as part of the class) making positive efforts to monitor the whole of the class and speak up for those who are more reserved. Of course, this all depends on the viewpoint of the individual. Are they in the Salsa scene for their own > hedonistic benefits or for the benefit of the scene. Most people fall somewhere between these two points and will altruistically aid others. It seems that this was sadly lacking at Montreal on the Saturday. Moving forward may have seemed a good idea. I did for one session, waiting at the front before others turned up. One couple then promptly pushed in from the side. They then slowly moved sideways ending up directly in front of me, repeatedly stepping on my feet and elbowing me, offering shallow apologies and then doing it all over again. I find that repeatedly smacking someone across the back of the head is not approved behaviour, and verbal comments weren't working. Rather than cause a commotion, I eventually moved further back again. One instructor requested that those at the front moved to the side to allow those further back to come forward, 10 out of 30 moving wasn't very encouraging, and then some of those moved straight back in again. A bit of consideration may be too much to ask of some apparently. Leaving aside the shows and the evening dance, the Sunday sessions were a big change from the Saturday. Most of the sessions were right back to basics, and the routines were kept very simple. Perhaps the background whispers had reached the organisers from the Saturday. More people would have been able to learn more had the Saturday and Sunday been reversed. I heard many people voice these comments. The positive points now. The stage shows on Saturday (I wasn't able to stay for the Sunday unfortunately) were spectacular, entertaining to the highest degree and very amusing. That alone was worth the entry cost. The evening of dance was also very entertaining for me, for other reasons. After nearly a year in Toronto (and the GTA) I was eventually able to feel part of the scene, all due to a group from Ottawa who 'adopted' me. As the second part of the joint heading indicates, I am a shy Salsero. I introduced to Salsa in England and I became very active in the scene in the North, dancing up to 15 hours a week. I came to Toronto with great expectations of having a great time, the Web showed a strong salsa scene. I expected it to be friendly and welcoming, what a disappointment. The lessons in England were designed to integrate newcomers into the Salsa scene. Partners were swapped round every few minutes (unless you insisted on staying with your own partner). Once the lesson was over the instructors would mingle for a while introducing people together. I found the scene to be very lively, friendly and active. A few of the more experienced dancers voluntarily took it upon themselves to dance with those who seemed to be a little reserved or alone. All told it made salsa dancing very approachable and comfortable and the scene was growing rapidly with new clubs opening regularly around the area. I was able to help start up two new clubs and I was involved in a couple of street demonstrations promoting salsa. Then I moved to Toronto. As I said above, I haven't felt part of the scene since I moved to Toronto and it took people from another city to bring me in. I am shy about breaking into a group. I tend to put myself into a position where a group can invite me in. Perhaps its my British reserve, I call it politeness. It isn't my style to be aggressive and force my way in. I have asked certain dancers to introduce me around but to no avail. There are a lot of novices out there who want to get involved with salsa, lets act to help not to hinder. Make salsa a strong majority scene, help it to grow more. I have over ten years instructional experience (not in Salsa) and a year as a school teacher. I have been involved in salsa for around 9 months of the last 18 months.


Rene's response to the email...

First let me first sympathize with you and ask you not to give up just yet.... The Toronto salsa scene is still developing and is just starting to build momentum. Please be patient.

Secondly let me say that you are absolutely correct in stating that groups such as Unitedsalseros is very important in every aspect of the salsa scene. There are also various groups who organize outings to different clubs throughout the week just for the sake of having fun. If you would like I could pass on their emails on to you and you can contact them directly. I along with others are also looking at a partner search/swap. Wouldn't it be great if you had a regular partner(s) to go out with every night? Don't worry it will be coming out shortly.

Without sounding too brash or egotistical I believe that Unitedsalseros has had a big hand in the recent development of the salsa scene in Toronto. If I am not mistaken we are the 1st local group to hold regular salsa workshops. In addition we hire various other local instructors (train and promote them) as well as volunteers to ensure everyone receives plenty of attention as well as to elevate and promote the salsa scene. Going even further we also offer a free review for a month after the workshop at different clubs (currently Tuesday's at Tequila Lounge) so that you can practice what you learned and not forget. As far as I know this was unheard of before. We are also trying to develop new talent (whether to perform or teach) and have worked numerous times with other instructors and organizors in promoting workshops and special events. There are are only a select few who are willing to promote others even if it doesn't benefit them. What others fail to realize is that in the long run it benefits us all (teachers and students alike). Also, some teachers, such as that of Soles Dance Studio, have practice nights at a club where they go dance and practice. I forsee a lot more of this happening (without sounding like a recording Tuesday nights at Tequila's has been very popular. We had apprx. 100+ students in both our levels). I along with my partners had planned something similar (student practice) since December but just haven't had the time yet. You have to understand that most workshops have 1 instructor, 2 if you are lucky, and even if they have more are not properly situated within the complex to give adequate attention. Hopefully others will follow our lead and go the same route. I already see different teachers working together (whether it be in a promotional or teaching capacity). I hope that it continues and expands. You at least had the nerve to voice your opinion. Let the rest of us have the nerve to put aside our egos and insecurities and work together. Regards, Rene



Wed, 23 Aug 2000
Subject: Saddened by the situation


I can totally sympathize with the shy salsa dancer from England. I too am new to Toronto. I moved here from Montreal four months ago and have been having difficulty "fitting in" to the Toronto Salsa scene. There are some really great people here who share my joy of dancing and I am blessed to know a few of them. If it weren't for them, I would have given up on salsa by now.

I started dancing ballroom last November and as a compliment to my training, I was shown salsa. I fell in love with the form right away. Although I do not speak Spanish, I felt an immediate bond to the music and very rarely can sit still long enough to catch my breath between numbers.

I have only had a few opportunities to take workshops this summer, but I try to get out to the dance clubs 2 or 3 times a week. Sadly, the story is always the same. The same faces keep popping up in the various salsa clubs, but most of the strong dancers only mingle with the intermediate level ones at arm's length or not at all.

There in lies the problem. Although there is never an excuse for bad manners, (no one likes to get their heel stepped on or their head smacked by a flying arm), I do feel that more can be done to encourage up and coming dancers. I am a strong intermediate and have never been known for me shyness, but it breaks my heart to be turned down by the stronger dancers and instructors. How's a girl to learn if those who are better don't challenge you to excel? If you are showing up to the clubs, I keep making the leap of logic that you are there to move your body on the dance floor.

It has happened on more than one occasion that I have given up on the people in the room and simply gone home dissatisfied. Maybe things are different here in Toronto, but I was taught that if you are in the room and the music is playing, it is assumed that you are there to dance. If someone asks you to dance, you say "yes". If you keep saying "no", you are going to run out of partners eventually or become stale because you keep dancing with the same ones.

I am not very good at Bachatta, but I never say "no" when someone asks. Why? Because if I don't practice, I will never progress. I don't care if the guy is six inches shorter than I am, dances with spaghetti arms or is even trying to pick me up while we are on the dance floor. I dance with them for two reasons: first, because I went to progress and second, because I know from personal experience how damn scary it is to ask someone to dance. It can be a real mood killer when they turn you down.

So what is the bottomline lesson that I want to impart? If you are there to dance, then dance, and then dance with as many different people as you can. Don't turn them down, don't say "yes", and then mysteriously disappear and perhaps most important of all is to keep in mind that just because you are dancing with a someone new, do not automatically make the assumption that your partner wants more from you than just your time on the dance floor. In other words, just because a woman or a man accepts your invitation or asks you to dance with them does not mean they want to sleep with you. Sure, I want to make friends, but what I really want is to dance. I would hate to think that the two are incompatible here in Toronto.

I don't mean to start a bitching session, but I am somewhat frustrated by the current situation. I dropped out of the local scene not so long ago for about 5 five weeks. My irritation with how things worked here just got the better of me. I have just recently gotten back into the swing of things because I love to dance and I don't want to give it up. I just hope I can hold on until the environment becomes more user-friendly.

I want to thank you Rene for giving me a forum to speak my mind. I don't care if you decide to flush this e-mail or not. At least it has provided me with an opportunity to vent some of my frustration. I appreciate it more than you can probably realize.

Julie
A.k.a. Saddend by the situation


Jan. 4, 2001
Firstly my apologies to TOsalsa, I haven't been checking your site. I am full of remorse, but now hope to maintain contact.

Since my original article I have noticed changes at Tequila Lounge, very much for the better. A policy of getting people to introduce themselves (although in a different format than I expected) seems to me to have improved the atmosphere in the club (virtually smoke-free also helps). Perhaps it's just my perception, but it's rapidly become a favourite of mine over the alternates available on the Tuesday. Thanks to Rene for making the changes, I feel easier about asking someone to dance who I have already met, even if it was briefly.

Since that time I have re-visited England and was happy to be able to pass on my Toronto experiences to some of the instructors in Manchester. They passed on their regards and were very interested in the developing scene over here. Hopefully Manchester will grow as Toronto is (similar population but different demographics). I was asked to join in a brainstorming session on how to improve matters in Manchester and this helped me to realise something important about the salsa scene in Toronto, a very good point.

The way this particular club was talking was that they wanted their club to become more popular. I shall repeat that with emphasis. THEY wanted THEIR club to become more popular. The Toronto scene seems to be a little different (with some notable exceptions I had the misfortune to come across in my early days in Canada last winter). How? Many of the instructors and clubs seem to be very open about salsa, not so much of a ME, ME ME thing but more of a community culture. Enough of the instructors are open enough to try to encourage people to dance salsa irregardless of where they then go onto. The salsa scene can then grow and everyone can reap the benefits. Congratulations and keep up the good work. It reminds me of a comment I heard once about patents. The originating company only benefits 30% from their own patent and 70% from others. Hold onto your own too closely and you have your hands too full to take advantage of other opportunities. Be selfless rather than selfish.

I am bearing in mind my previous missive whilst writing this. It seems to be that the instructors are fairly open about their instruction while many of the stronger dancers stay in closed cliques. Also, don't forget that an instructor can become one of these 'stronger dancers' when not teaching. The better instructors tend to welcome openly everyone they know (debates on degree of sincerity aside) and this helps make a newcomer feel welcome. We still need the stronger dancers to support this initial movement.

Incident I saw in one club recently made me feel disgusted. The class had just started, no excess ladies so I stood and watched. One man had been dancing but had stopped. His partner was still trying out the steps and he was ignoring her. I wandered over, picking up the steps from others still practicing and I offered my help. It was quickly refused by him. I moved away. It was obvious that the lady couldn't do the steps and was noticeably out of her depth but her class partner was ignoring her and refusing to help. Later on during the class she came over and we danced for a while. Yes, she was definitely out of her depth but she was willing to try so I spent a fair bit of time helping out. In the social time afterwards I made a point of going over to dance freestyle with her.

Debate aside about whether she should have been in that class, the attitude of her first class partner was (in my own opinion) very uncivilised. I saw him dancing later, and yes he was very good. Arrogant? I don't know. One question I would like to have asked and got an honest answer for -- Would he have tried harder had she been 20 years younger and a lot prettier? A new thread for discussion perhaps.


January 15, 2001
"Just wanted to say that I agree with the salsera from Montreal (Aug. 23rd response). Being a salsera old-timer myself, I also tend to find it slightly difficult to get back in the dance scene. I don't go out very often, but when I do, I find that there seems to be salsa cliques, and that they seem to stick together. I guess they are used to each other's dancing style and enjoy dancing with one another. However, guys and gals give other people a chance. You may just find another dance partner. Besides, variety is the spice of life. Anyways, just wanted Montreal salsera to know that she is not the only one who feels this way. I guess that is the price you pay for dropping in and out of the scene". -- Old-Timer


January 19, 2001
Dear Readers:
Regarding the comments about "cliques" -- Although you may not believe it, even I was outside the so-called salsa cliques for the first two years and only got to know them in the last year-and-half. The way I look at it, what everyone calls "cliques" is just a misnomer for dancers who have been on the scene for so long and have forged special friendships or kinship with other dancers who share the same passion they do -- the love of salsa dancing. But in many of these cliques, the relationship doesn't end there.

When you're out so often, you start to call each other to find out where the "regulars" are heading out that night so you can be sure to have someone you know to dance with. If you're in a real need of a salsa fix, you want to make sure there's enough dancers that you like to dance with at the same place
. Also, God forbid that you pick a club that's filled with the pick-up crowd or people who have absolutely no idea how to dance salsa. Then as you start to call other dancers, you also start finding out more about the person you're talking to -- they are real people with another life and interests you may or may not know about. After all, when you're in the club, who can have an "intelligent" conversation when all you hear is the music blasting all around you -- or you haven't had a chance to sit or mingle 'cause you want to dance to every song that's playing. There's many a night I would say to my girlfriends, "Let's talk when we get to the Club", and then we're on the floor dancing all night with our friends. Or you start to develop a stronger bond as you find they share the same depth of dance interest or goals you do and therefore, will tend to do more activities together, such as forming a dance troupe or plan to go to a dance convention together.

Regarding the point about shutting others out -- for many, when you've had a long day at work or are stressed out, sometimes you just want to be left alone or spend some time with your friends, and maybe have enough energy for one dance or two to get your daily fix for the night. Believe it or not, some dancers within the cliques have nights where they don't even want to dance with each other! Also, for the regulars who go out at least 4-5 nights a week, they don't need to dance non-stop every night; and usually get pickier about the songs they dance to and possibly who they dance with. I agree, there are some dancers who absolutely will not dance with someone who is not their level, but there are many others who will. Being a female, I've had my share of rejection too, and don't forget men suffer from that as much as women do. Another reason a girl may reject a guy is if you've had enough dance "accidents" as I have, there is nothing worse than a beginner dancer who tries tricks, dips and other crazy moves on a crowded dance floor and you become the "punching" bag.

In response to dancing with others, let me share my experiences of how to "fit in" and/or become a better dancer so you can start dancing with the "strong" dancers.

Obviously unless you have friends who dance salsa already, you have to be pretty brave to "stick it out" until you make new friends to "hang with" in the clubs. When I first started, I hardly knew anyone in the salsa scene; and I would go to the clubs on my own. It was tough because I was "new to the scene" and was too shy to go up to guys myself and ask them. I would watch on the sidelines on the one or two nights I went out and would wait for the guys to ask. Then from my dance classes, I started to meet people who regularly went dancing in the clubs and we would go religiously one or two nights a week and have a blast. After about a year, most of them dropped out of the scene and I was stuck again, not knowing anyone. I went to the clubs by myself; but because I didn't have the nerve to ask guys to dance, I would go home "not happy" as I couldn't get my salsa fix. I realized that if I wanted to get my fix I would have to start getting the nerve up to ask guys to dance; so I decided that I would ask any guy who I thought was a "great dancer", a teacher or was a dance competitor. They didn't all say "Yes", but that didn't stop me from asking someone else.

When I made that decision, it was a turning point in my dancing for these reasons:
1. From dancing with so many male dancers, I learned to adjust my reaction time as a "follower" to their lead, which made me more desirable as a dance partner.
2. With some dancers, I formed a "dance connection" right away, or surprised them with the fact that I could "follow" so well. They became my new regulars each week and sometimes we would dance whole salsa sets together cause there wasn't anyone else at the club that night who we bonded with.
3. As I started going to the classes or workshops with the more "dedicated" dancers, I also got to meet some great male dancers that I normally hadn't seen or met in the clubs before. And when they did, we would ask each other to dance.
4. I also took the initiative to talk to the male dancers who were interested in practicing or learning new moves and we would get together for an hour or two on a regular basis.
5. To become really proficient at salsa, you can't expect to be great from one or two nights a week -- most of my friends, male and female, dance consistently for hours at least 3-4 nights week at the club, plus take dance classes/workshops for at least 6 months to a year, depending on your dance background.

In other words, you can't just stand around and expect to "fit in", you have to work at it. If you want to dance with "stronger" dancers, then you have to take the initiative yourself and analyze why they may not want to dance with you. Can you dance their style? Can you give them their fix? If not, then take some classes or workshops or maybe you just need to find a partner who wants to practice and become a "strong" dancer. For the men, learn how to lead well. And that doesn't mean a "tug of war" -- there is an art to leading. Some of the best male dancers have a lead that is so precise and feels "like butter" when we dance. It's all up to you -- it's your choice whether to take action or just stand around. And maybe one day soon, you'll form your own "circle" of dancers/friends you like to dance with -- Rose Knows...


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