July 9, 2004

Dancers versus Musicians

Dear Readers, here's an interesting viewpoint from a Dancer discussing how salsa musicians think of us...

We will post any feedback from our readers.

Our Reader asked...  
Our Feedback... January 19, 2002 - Richard's response
January 22, 2002 - Ann's response to Richard
January 25, 2002 - Richard's response
October 29, 2003 - Jose's response
November 14, 2003 - Greg's response
New!
 July 9, 2004 - Chris' response
   



November 15, 2001

I think we might be at odds with our local Salsa bands. A few weeks ago I was at Berlin, having a good night, chilling to live music. It was a rare occasion for me since like any other self-respecting Salsera, I'm usually out on the dance floor. As the band finished their song and the dancers wound down their movements; my companion for the evening, a local Salsa musician, said something that I found very disturbing.

He gestured for me to notice that the dancers standing below the stage weren't clapping and based on his experience, they never did. For a split-second, I was dumbfounded. He was right. We don't clap. As dancers, we're usually too busy working on getting our breath back between numbers to pay proper respect to the band. Mind you, I recovered quickly enough to counter that if we didn't appreciate the music, we wouldn't dance to it at all. He yielded the point to me, but still, the exchange left me with something to think about. There is no doubt in my mind that our local musicians represent a significant portion of the Toronto Salsa community, but until now I've never thought about taking them into consideration when talking about Salsa dancing.

Do musicians resent dancers? I think they do a little bit. Although we are all on friendly speaking terms for the most part, my musician-friend recently made me acutely aware once again of the gulf that exists between the two groups. He asked me in an almost accusing manner (as if I held all the answers) why dancers felt the need to block the way to the front door at the Bamboo Club when there was a perfectly good dance floor in front of the stage. "Don't dancers realize they're getting in the way of the other patrons who were trying to get in and out of the club?" he asked. The answer may not be apparent to the musicians, but to any dancer on the Toronto Salsa scene, the answer is pretty obvious: the floor is not nearly as good near the stage; and it's too hot and over-crowded most of the time. But in the front entrance to the club, the area near the door is cool, offers a few couches to sit down on and space to move for everyone, including those who are trying to reach the door. If the owners placed a water cooler there, that corner could very well be called perfect. Maybe we should put together a petition.

Cheekiness aside, the irony is not lost upon me when I think about how, as dancers, we are so proud of the fact that we believe that Salsa brings people together from all walks of life, yet we are blind to the cultural riff that exists within our own community. It is assumed that Salsa holds no barriers to race, age, religion, language or socio-economic status, but somehow we have failed to notice that two integral parts of our Salsa community are segregated from one another. As dancers, we don't usually notice musicians unless they are playing, and when they're not playing, we don't know what to say to them. We go out to dance, not to talk.

I thought maybe I was alone in my observation until I asked another Salsera her opinion. She responded in exactly the same way I did. In fact, she took things one step further. She said that she needed to find the music inspirational to dance to first before she was even inclined to show her appreciation by clapping afterwards. This woman is no slouch when it comes to her understanding of music and she loves live bands. I guess it just goes to show that dancers are a tough audience to please.

Maybe we are a bit spoiled and unappreciative of our local talent, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that musicians aren't exactly in love with us, but it goes both ways. On more than one occasion, I have heard dancers complain that the music just isn't inspiring them and they wish the bands would learn new songs. Music like dancing takes skill and practice even under the best of circumstances. And to make matters more difficult, I'm sure it isn't easy to learn new material when a band's line-up is always changing. Seriously, anyone who has taken the time to look at the musicians up on stage here in Toronto has noticed that at least one of our local bands has a lineup that can change almost completely from month to month. Am I being harsh? Absolutely. The reality is that musicians will always have a beef with dancers and vice versa. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. If both sides are aware of what is going on with the other, the results could wind up being a positive catalyst for improvement for everyone. You just have to keep in mind that our local musicians love Salsa just much as we do. Heck, they probably love it more since they're the ones playing it. All I can say for sure is that I know that from now on after a dance, I will probably go out of my way a little bit more often to clap for the band…even when I'm gasping for air -- DJ

The Feedback....

January 19, 2002 - Dancers Vs Musicians

Are dancers at odds with Salsa bands? At times we may be. When a band comes on stage and plays a bruising number with no regard or understanding that the material is first and foremost to inspire dancers to dance, the music played will be discordant to dancers.

Ever since antiquity, music has been created and played for dance. This continued into the 19th century with luscious melodies such as that for waltz by Mozart and Strauss, for example. Operas, a stage musical, in the 18th century included as a rule Ballet music. Dance and music often are inseparable.

Dancers, interpret music, accent music with their moves. This is how we as dancers, animate the music. Appreciation of music need not be manifested through applause. Could not pounding a table, or stamping of feet in rhythm to music be taken as an applause?

I therefore suggest that musicians playing to a dance audience search for visual cues rather than wait for the rather limited communication channels of language and hand clapping alone -- Richard

January 22, 2002

Musicians exist to fuel the needs of dancers? It's been that way since antiquity? What a load of crap!!! Don't get me wrong. I'm all for dancers ruling the world, but I seriously doubt that any musician in their right mind is going to start rearranging their sets just to suit the mood of a some looney toon dancer who has an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. Heaven help the musician who bows down to such an attitude and starts playing strictly to please the crowd -- Ann

January 25, 2002 -- Dancers and Musicians

A dancer, Ida Rubinstein, commissioned "Bolero" the musical score. It is a masterpiece composed by a musician, Maurice Ravel. This wildly successful score for a dance has won popularity in the concert hall as well. The brilliant composer musician, Maurice wrote the score to be uniform throughout in its melody, harmony and rhythm, the rhythm orientated to dance being tapped out consistently on the drum. Variety is evident in the music's crescendo. This music was very deliberately conceived and played for a dance. Other major works exists for dance, "Swan Lake", "The Nut Cracker Suit"; examples after examples go on leading into the modern times.

This does not suggest that music be composed and played for dance alone. Not at all! One would find it difficult to dance to "Requiem", though a creative dancer might find a way. Scene, January 22nd, 2002, the Berlin Night Club, the band began the set with a blistering number. After the music played to an empty floor, the band spokes person asked, "There is no one dancing, it was too fast, wasn't it?" This band adjusted its tempo and continued to a successful night. Did heaven play a hand, it is possible.. Good heavens! A band of musicians does know when to mesmerize the senses and quicken the pulses of dancers.

Is there a brawl between dancers and musicians? Perhaps there is a fantasy play yet to be written. I wonder if it would be at all musical.

October 29, 2003 -- Musicians vs Dancers

Well let me fill all you people rambling about that Mozart and requiem bologna with a little confession from management at Berlin (manhattan Fuel).

A musician friend told me that the manager that pays the bands after their shows surprised this gentleman with this comment. She mentioned to him that Berlin was thinking of cuttting down the band's pay or going to a full DJ and OMIT the bands. This was primarily because (and I quote)-->"the crowd does not respond to any acts we bring in".

I've seen band members get into a groove and project a great sound that makes the dancers move.. get their excitment killed at the end of a song because no one cares that the timbal player did a great solo or that the singer sang his heart out. The song could've sounded amazing and the only praises the band would get was from the band members themselves. They would be conratulating eachother then look out on the dancefloor to hear crickets in the night...

Dancers take them for granted that's for sure. Kinda sucks when you try to get into the next tune thinking the last one didn't affect anyone. Maybe that's why bands sometimes DO play crappy...the only thing fueling them is one of their own band members. Dancers don't care becuase their main purpose there is to dance (for some "show off"). Whether it may be a DJ playing a repetitive Sonora Carruseles tune or a band sweating their asses off for the dancers.

We don't want musicians to show up just because they want to get paid, we want to make them enjoy what they do and most importantly make them feel that THEIR PRESENCE IS BEING AKNOWLEDGED!!!!!!

Well at least they have Lula Lounge....poor guys. -- Jose

November 14, 2003-- Dancers and Musicians

Always remember that without music, there is no dancing. You can always enjoy music without the dancing, but it is difficult to enjoy dancing without the music! Support YOUR local musicians. -- Greg
July 9, 2004-- Dancers and Musicians

I am a musician in New York City who has been playing with Salsa bands for over twenty years. Yes, it is common to experience no applause after a song -- if the band is mediocre or just plain bad.

I am fortunate to play with artists like Tito Gomez, Hector Tricoche, Luisito Carrion and many other great soneros -- and they NEVER get snubbed by the audience. In fact, people will crowd around the stage usually just to watch them perform. So, it depends on the level of the artist and the quality of swing the band brings to the stage, IMO. Peace. -- Chris, NYC
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