September
23, 2001
Dear Lulita, I happen to like all types of "salsa"
music no matter what country it's from and unfortunately, as with
most salsa dancers who are non-latino, we have no clue where the music
comes from, we just know what we like to dance to. At this time, if
the artists I'm choosing are mostly New York-style salsa, then that's
what I enjoy dancing to at the moment. If you look in my music section,
you will see that I have interviewed and talked to the Puentes Brothers
from Cuba who play cuban son, which I enjoy very much, along with
all the cuban son artists we have in Toronto, such as Klave y Kongo
who is now Son Ache. If you put together a list of the "great
salsa songs" from Cuba, I'll be more than happy to post it for
our readers and to learn more about it for myself.. Rose Knows
September
23, 2001
DEFINICIONES
No les parece a ustedes RIDICULAS todas esas versiones de boleros,
llevadas a la musica bailable, como la version de Lady Laura, ahora
cantada en Salsa,
y me pregunto; son esos los aportes hechos a la musica Cubana, que
tenemos que agradecer ?
o la version de Payaso, por Andy; o la version de LLuvia ,por Eddie
Santiago.
No sean ridiculos, y aprendan del mas grande de los grande, BENY MORE,
quien siempre brindo una musica alegre y guarachera para bailar, para
llorar estan los Boleros.
Lean el libro dedicado a la memoria de Tito puente para que aprendan
del origen de la musica Cubana, llamada hoy en dia Salsa, y los que
dicen que luego de 1959 se acabo la salsa en Cuba, es solo porque
ellos no tuvieron la posibilidad de adquirir lo que se siguio haciendo
en Cuba -- Abdel lopez
Translated into English...
Do you not find all those versions of boleros that have been made
into danceable music to be completely RIDICULOUS? for example, the
version of Lady Laura, now sung as a Salsa....
And I ask myself: are those the contributions to Cuban music for which
we should be grateful? or what about the version of Payaso by Andy;
or the version of Lluvia by Eddie Santiago?
Don't be ridiculous. Learn about the greatest of the greatest, BENY
MORE, who always brought a joyful and guracho-like feeling to dance
music. If you want to cry, then listen to boleros.
Read the book dedicated to the memory of Tito Puente, so that you
may learn about the history of Cuban music, which today goes by the
name of Salsa. Those who said that after 1959* it was the end of Salsa
were wrong because they had no way of knowing what continued to happen
in Cuba.
*the Cuban Revolution
September
26, 2001
Hmmm... shall we vote?
Is
Cuban music better than Newyorican? you decide...
September
28, 2001
Variado
First of all hello to everyone.
I'd like to say that I don't think that the,"Which Salsa is better?"
survey is a fair survey. The reason being is that Cuban music is not
advertised here in North America and because of this people just haven't
had enough chance or opportunity to listen to it (or at least enough
to form an opinion). Furthermore, when New York bands like the previous
DLG played tipical cuban SON like "Juliana", people didn't
recognize it as what it is, SON.
What started happening in New York from around 1990 and up is just
versions of SONGO.
In respects to what Izzy said about young New Yoricans saved the Cuban
music around 1959 in New York City. That might have been true for
the music in New York City, since the embargo didn't allow for Cuban
music to be brought over to North America properly. But in Cuba and
in Africa & many other places around the world, they continued
and have been listening to what after 1959 was still being created
in Cuba - Abdel Lopez
October
1, 2001
Rose,
You are right when you say most people don't know which country the
salsa song they are listening comes from. That's my point exactly.
99% of the salsa songs they play at nightclubs come from either Puerto
Rico, New York or Colombia. It is very difficult to hear a Cuban salsa
song being played at a nightclub. Of course, you can hear Colombian,
Puerto Rican versions of Cuban songs, they do it all the time. But
it is difficult to hear the real thing. Most DJs think Cuban music
is Gloria Estafan and they would be hard pressed to name one popular
Salsa group in Cuba now.
People can only like what they can hear. It's like Casino or Cuban
salsa dancing, people think they know what it is like, but they haven't
seen the real thing. I don't think it is some great conspiracy against
Cuban music, but popular Cuban music of today has not been given a
fair chance in the market place.
In terms of music, we follow the American Music companies and for
many years you couldn't listen to Cuban music because of the American
trade embargo. Even now,
it is extremely difficult to get a hold of Cds of the popular groups
en Cuba.
The music industries of New York, Puerto Rico, Miami is much more
developed than Cuba's. Many Djs and record companies in the US are
afraid to touch Cuban music, because of the Cuban-American lunatics
in Miami. So, I don't think your poll of what Salsa (New York or Cuba)
you prefer is fair, because most of your readers have never heard
Cuban salsa -- Lulita
October
12, 2001 -- from Abdel Lopez
English
The Best Songs to Dance to...
Since I saw the list Rose made about her favorite dancing songs, it
motivated me to write as I found alot of song versions of Cuban bands
by others, for example, she has Fania playing "Sandunguera",
an original song of Los Van Van, Jose Alberto "El Canario"
shows up with "A la hora que me llamen voy" of Candido Fabre,
and many more songs of Cubans as the one of Fruko "De donde son
los cantantes" a very old cuban song, also Oscar De Leon sings
of Benny More "Que bueno baila Usted".
Many of all these Cuban songs were created long before the "SALSA"
name was created for the Cuban music played in New York city, it is
a real proof that salsa is just the Son, Mambo and Rumba.
I understand why there's a deficiency of Cuban music between the lists,
even though I did see a mention of Adalberto Alvarez; and I will put
together my own list of songs. Of course, I do not advise anyone to
dance Cuban Timba without studying it previously because of its constant
changes in harmony and music tempos which require a dancer to have
constant improvisation in their movement.
Spanish
Las mejores canciones para BAILAR
Lei cuidadosamente la seccion donde describen las mejores canciones
para bailar y me senti motivado al ver entre ellas un numero de Los
Van Van nombrado Sandunguera, originalmente llamado "Por encima
del nivel", pero en las versiones de Oscar de Leon, El Gran Combo
y Fania, simplemente se le llama asi, "Sandunguera".
Entiendo perfectamente la carencia de musica cubana entre las listas,
tambien vi un tema de Adalberto Alvarez, pero prometo hacer mi propia
lista y de seguro que dentro de ellas estara "Yo no me parezco
a Nadie" de Bamboleo, ademas de temas de La Charanga Habanera,
Reve, Van Van y Azucar Negra, entre otros.
Por supuesto, que no aconsejo a nadie a bailar con Timba Cubana, sin
estudiarla anteriormente, debido a que sus constantes cambios de harmonias
y contrastes musicales, equieren del bailador una constante inprovisacion
en sus movimientos, con lo cual, a la larga, logra sentirse mas libre
y menos atado a la mecanica de un estilo rutinario.
November
2, 2001
Rose, I'd like to echo several points
about Cuban music that I've read in the discussion:
1) it's rather presumptious for salsa people to claim they like Cuban
salsa music better (or not as much as) other types when they NEVER
hear it. NG La Banda, Charanga Habanera, Bamboleo etc are not exactly
big names with salseros of Toronto...and I presume with the rest of
North America
2) Occasionally, DJ's such as myself, Radames and Alvaro C. will mix
in timba (because we do know it) to our salsa sets, but by and large
the dancers dont know how to dance to Cuban 'timba' as the rhythms
are different. I think the salseros could easily incorporate this
style if they were exposed to it, but they aren't.
3) Here are some of my favourite timba songs
1) Una Mulata en la Havana - ADALBERTO ALVAREZ
2) Lo Que Queras Que Bamboleo - BAMBOLEO
3) Candelina Ale - ALBERTO ALBERTO
4) Espuellos de Gallo Viejo - LA BARRIADA
5) La Sandunguita- ISSAC DELGADO
6) Temba, Tumba, Timba - LOS VAN VAN
7) Santa La Palabra - NG LA BANDA
8) Malo Cantidade - CARLOS MANUEL
9) El Volcan del Caribe- IRAKERE
10) Esta Te Pone La Cabeza Mala - LOS VAN VAN
I will
play these and other Cuban sounds when I bring Quimica Perfecta to
the Bamboo Club in Toronto November 9. Quimica Perfecta are a very
talented group of young Cuban musicians living in Toronto who specialize
in 'timba' and I would encourage Toronto salseros to come down and
experience the difference.
thanks
and keep up the good work
billy bryans
November
4, 2001
Why Cuban Music doesn't get so much play...
Hi Lulita, I'd like to give my two cents on some of your comments....
<<
99% of the salsa songs they play at nightclubs come from either Puerto
Rico, New York or Colombia. It is very difficult to hear a Cuban salsa
song being played at a nightclub. Of course, you can hear Colombian,
Puerto Rican versions of Cuban songs, they do it all the time. But
it is difficult to hear the real thing. >>
There
is a majority of Salsa music recordings played by DJ's of bands outside
of Cuba. But this depends on Geographics in the U.S. In Miami you
hear alot of Willy Chirino and Raul Paz. And artists like Albita and
Cachao are thrown in there as well. NYC you'll hear alot of the local
bands from NYC and also Puerto Rico. It's based upon the demand of
what the public/dancers want or are calling for to be played.
Another
distinction you have to make is which Cubans are you talking about?
Cubans from Cuba or Cubans anywhere? Because Cuban artists outside
of Cuba receive much play at clubs in Miami, Washington, NYC, Chicago
and elsewhere. From Miles Peqa to Justo Betancourt to Hector Casanova
to Celia Cruz to Orquesta Broadway to Chico Alvarez just to name a
few. All of whom are Cuban born residing in America & Puerto Rico.
One
other reason why you may not hear many cuban nationals music playing
at clubs is that what you deem as them playing Salsa is actually not.
The majority of popular bands emerging from Cuba are not playing Salsa
but are playing Timba. Timba is a whole new ballgame. You cannot dance
on 1 or 2 to Timba. Dancing to Timba is in a form somewhat of a "tembleque".
You cannot dance on 2 to Timba. You could try, but it's not set up
that way. Most people in the states dance Mambo style and whether
we enjoy it or not, Salsa Romantica and Clasica provide the means
to do so. In NYC, there is one particular venue that does play TIMBA
music all night long. Visit NELL'S on a Wednesday night www.cubansoul.com.
Perhaps there are other venues around the USA that play Timba as well
someone might be able to hip you to?....
<<
Most DJs think Cuban music is Gloria Estafan and they would be hard
pressed to name one popular Salsa group in Cuba now. >>
I'm
curious.... Could you? Like I said, you have Adalberto Alvarez, Cubanismo,
Charanga Habanera, Isaac Delgado and some others who Salsa dancers
in the states could dance to. But it's very dificult to take the same
Salsa/Mambo dance approach to Paulito F.G., Los Van Van, NG La Banda,
etc. Of course the embargo doesn't help any what with travel restrictions
and what not. Cuban bands do not get paid in the USA. Theire pesence
in the USA is partof the cultural exchange porogram set up between
the US and other countries to appreciate other cultures. What they
get is a stipend, maybe like $100 dollars for walking around money
while they are here. Theri's smore $$ opportubnityi in Europe for
them than the USA. At least under the current US-Cuba relationship.
If the ban is lifted, then watch out Salseros! More clubs would probably
book Cuban bands for it's "freshness". Until the next "mania"
from someplace else comes around and replaces it.
FYI-Issac
Delgado happens to be one of the biggest selling artists out of Cuba
in the USA right now. In a four month span he has sold more units
than what George Lamond sold in a whole year for his debut CD "Entrega".
So I think the whole Cuban Salsa doesn't get play in the states or
anyplace else is a little exagerrated. It does get play and people
do seem to be buying it....
<<
People can only like what they can hear. It's like Casino or Cuban
salsa dancing, people think they know what it is like, but they haven't
seen the real thing. I don't think it is some great conspiracy against
Cuban music, but popular Cuban music of today has not been given a
fair chance in the market place. >>
You
are correct, yet Cuban music is not the only one who is suffering
from this lack of promotion in the USA Market place. There are many
bands cuban and non-cuban who are also not receiving a proper chance.
Popular Salsa bands such as Jimmy Bosch and Wayne Gorbea to Los Jovenes
Del Barrio and Larry Harlow do not receive airplay on commercial radio,
nor do they get the type of promotion they deserve. It is an all around
problem facing many artists, not just the cubans.
Another
FYI-If you notice, the general concensus among promoters is that Cuban
bands are the way to go these days. Most Buena Vista Social Club presentations
whether it's Ibrahim Ferrer or Omara Portuondo or other artists such
as Latin Jazz virtuosos, Chucho Valdes & Gonzalo Rubalcaba sell
out their respctive venues that they appear in. While you say that
Cuban popular music gets no respect, the consensus in the music industry
seems to be that the Cuban nationals are taking away jobs/$$$ from
the stateside musicians, cuban and non-cuban....
<<
In terms of music, we follow the American Music companies and for
many years you couldn't listen to Cuban music because of the American
trade embargo. Even now,
it is extremely difficult to get a hold of Cds of the popular groups
en Cuba. >>
Difficult,
if perhaps you live in an area where the local record shops don't
sell many latin CD's. But it is not impossible to find most, if not
all, of the popular and non-popular Cuban CD's in your local super
stores or small record shops that cater to Afro-Caribbean or World
Music. The Virgin Record Stores, COCONUTS, BORDERS, J&R music
World and other retail shops possess most of the Cuban popular music
catalog in their inventory. If you can't find it in your stores, there
is always the on-line mail order internet CD stores that can provide
you with some Cuban music....
www.descarga.com
www.cdnow.com
www.jazzconclave.com
<<
Many Djs and record companies in the US are afraid to touch Cuban
music, because of the Cuban-American lunatics in Miami. >>
You
hit the nail right on the head. I personally believe that Timba could
be a crossover phenomenon to the American consumer in the market place.
Simply because Timba has Pop/R&B/Rock influences. Outside of the
Salsa cuhcifrito circuit. But due to this severe problem in Miami
with anything coming out of Cuba being perceived as evil and Castro-influenced,
Cuban Popular Music from the island will suffer in terms of mass exposure
here in the states.
BTW-For
the guy who wrote that the FANIA ALL-STARS Copied the Cuban song SANDUNGUERA,
the CD it appeared on BRAVO '97 was orignally intended to be in Tribute
to Juan Formell, leader of Los Van Van. If you notice, the entire
recording is nothing but Van Van tunes. When Jerry Masucci, the FANIA
President/Founder (who was a huge cuban music fan) was still alive,
his dream was to combine the world's greatest Salsa band, The FANIA
ALL-STARS and have them back up Cuba's best up & coming singers.
Recorded in Cuba, Issac Delgado, Manolin, Lucrecia, Mayito Rivera,
and some others recorded the vocals for the songs which was to be
released under the new label Jerry Masucci Music. (JMM) Unfortunately,
the Miami exiles got wind of the recording and SONY (who is based
out of Miami and was JMM's distributor) was forced to have Masucci
change the format altogether or there would be no deal between them.
All of this due to the threat of protest and just the usual political
BS one has to endure to appease the Cuban exile leaders, who felt
that paying tribute to a resident Cuban such as Juan Formell (who
refuses to leave Cuba) means one is embracing communism.
To not have to go through this nonsense, the Cuban vocal tracks were
axed and the Fania veteran singers were implemented over their vocals.
Instead of the Cuban musical youth being showcased in America and
throughout the globe via JMM/SONY, it was the usual suspects with
Pete Conde Rodriguez, Andy Montaqez, Celia Cruz, Willie Colsn, Cheo
Feliciano, Ismael Miranda, Adalberto Santiago and Ismael Quintana
doing the vocals. What might have been the start of something positive
between NY, Puerto Rico, and Cuban musicians and singers, ended up
becoming a poor attempt to make up what might have been a classic
recording in tribute to Juan Formell & Los Van Van....
<<
So, I don't think your poll of what Salsa (New York or Cuba) you prefer
is fair, because most of your readers have never heard Cuban salsa
-- Lulita >>
I have.
But to each is own. You can't blame people for liking one style or
music from a specific location more than another. Not everything is,
as you say, a conspiracy.
The embargo is no longer a problem with respects to the music. Unlike
in the past, you can now purchase CD's in your store or download MP3's.
If your local club does not play Cuban music, let the house DJ know
about it and provide tips for him or her on which tunes you think
might go over with the crowd.
I'm boricua but I prefer the South American sound of today (Venezuela
and Colombia) rather than the P.R. or N.Y. sound of PR Power, Tito
Rojas, Victor Manuelle, Tito Nieves, Frankie Negron, etc. Simply because
it maintains the "masacote" of the old latin NY sounds that
I personally love of yesteryear. But don't sleep on NYC. There are
many musicians and groups here who can't even get a record deal who
sound just as good, if not better, than most of what's out there today....
Rumbero
November
5, 2001
Salsa is not JUST Cuban music....
Dear Abdel,
I don't
feel that the poll is unfair with regards to which Salsa do you prefer,
Cuban or Nuyorican? You may be correct with regards to North America,
but what about Salseros in Europe or South & Central America where
Cuban music is predominant and many Cuban bands perform there regularly?
North America is just but one piece of the SALSA pie....
<<
when New York bands like the previous DLG played tipical cuban SON
like "Juliana", people didn't recognize it as what it is,
SON. >>
"Juliana"
is not a typical Cuban Son. Juliana happens to be a "Guaracha"
recorded previous to DLG's version by Cuco Valoy. A Dominican. What's
more important? Paying lip service to a musical form? Or to an ethnic
group that has never gotten recognized for their contribution to Cuban
popular music and Salsa? Los Dominicanos....
<<
What started happening in New York from around 1990 and up is just
versions of SONGO. >>
This
is completely false. Salsa Romantica is not SONGO. The closest thing
to the Romantica approach is Timba. In 1973, the Salsa Orchestra known
as Tipica '73 released the first Salsa album in the states that had
Songo. Pick up the album CANDELA and compare it with Los Van Van's
early recordings....
<<
In respects to what Izzy said about young New Yoricans saved the Cuban
music around 1959 in New York City. That might have been true for
the music in New York City, since the embargo didn't allow for Cuban
music to be brought over to North America properly. >>
Many
people say this but there is proof to contradict otherwise. Why take
the album MAMBO CON CONGA IS MOZAMBIQUE by Eddie Palmieri in 1965
for instance. The Mozambique rhythm was created by Cuban musician,
Pello El Afrokan, some years prior to EP's record release. How did
EP get wind of this new rhythm if there was this all-limiting embargo
that stopped anythgn coming ut of Cuba to reach the USA? How did Tipica
'73 get hip to Songo? Los Van Van were recording it prior to Tipcia
'73 was. Timba Music goes as far back as the 1970s. Both Songo and
Timba are Afro-Cuban music mixed with North American music's. Los
Van Van wanted to incorporate Rock elements into their sound. The
Timberos started fooling with synthesizers and electric bass guitars,
etc. This is all American influenced. How did the Cubans get hip to
these music's? There may have been an embargo that was supposedly
intended to stop any communication from the island to the USA. But
much like today, it didn't stop music from evolving and influencing
one another. Much like today people traveled to Cuba back and forth
from the USA and vice versa and learned from each other. Bands like
Irakere & Los Van Van are products of their cuban musical environment
with a keen interest in American home grown products like Jazz, Funk
and R&B. Just pick up any of those records by either of those
two groups and you'll see that there's not much difference between
what Irakere was doing and what Carlos Santana was doing during the
same time period....
<<
But in Cuba and in Africa & many other places around the world,
they continued and have been listening to what after 1959 was still
being created in Cuba >>
So has
the USA. And both Cuba and Africa and other countries have been listening
to what was being created in the USA as well. (See Africando, Orq.
De La Luz from Japan, Salsa Celtica from Sctoland, Nueva Manteca from
Germany, Conexion Latina from Hamburgh, Germany, etc.)
<<
I found alot of song versions of Cuban bands by others, for example,
she has Fania playing "Sandunguera", an original song of
Los Van Van, Jose Alberto "El Canario" shows up with "A
la hora que me llamen voy" of Candido Fabre, and many more songs
of Cubans as the one of Fruko "De donde son los cantantes"
a very old cuban song, also Oscar De Leon sings of Benny More "Que
bueno baila Usted". Many of all these Cuban songs were created
long before the "SALSA" name was created for the Cuban music
played in New York city, it is a real proof that salsa is just the
Son, Mambo and Rumba. >>
Okay
let's play with your little theory here. Then what would you say to
Roberto Faz recording "El Bombon De Elena", Ruben Gonzalez
playing "Maria Cervantes", Orquesta Aragon recording "Cachita",
Chucho Valdes recording
"Obsesion", Ibrahim Ferrer singing "El Cumbanchero",
La Lupe singing "La Gran Tirana" and La Sonora Habanera
performing "Orgullosa"? All of these songs are composed
by Don Rafael Cepeda, Don Rafael Hernandez, Noro Morales, Don Pedro
Flores, Tite Curet Alonso and Bobby Capo. All of them Boricuas, born
and bred in Puerto Rico. Are the above mentioned singers singing Puertorican
music? Are they stealing other's music? Orgullosa has been recorded
as a Salsa by Ismael Rivera. Obsesion by practically everyone, cuban
and non-cuban. EL CUMBANCHERO appears on almost every Cuban record
you can find and is considred a classic of Cuban popular music. Tite
Curet Alonso wrote most of the songs recorded by the FANIA artists
and one of them was the bolero sung by La Lupe La Gran Tirana. Aren't
cubans guilty of the same thing? Covering standards that were already
previously recorded or interpreted by others? What do you make of
the Buena Vista Social Club? Every single song they recorded was interpreted
or recorded by someone else. Are Cubans the only ones allowed to interpret
Cuban Music? Where would Cuban music be were it not for most of the
entire globe embracing it and adopting it as their own? Salsa is not
just Mambo, Rumba and Son. There are many songs that include Bomba's
and that have Brazilian influences and not to mention one of the most
important elements in Salsa that is forgotten or unknown to many....
JAZZ.
Richie Rumbero
December
2, 2001 - To " El Rumbero "
Do you
call Salsa to what Jimmy Bosh and Los Jovenes del Barrio are playing
?
But,
you don`t call the new music coming out of Cuba, Salsa ?
I thought
Salsa was any mixing of rythms, and that is what Timba is. We mix
Latin Jazz, Songo, Mambo, Guaracha and so on.
You
can call Jimmy Bosh`s music Salsa if you ,as well, do it with the
music played by old Cuban bands such as Arsenio, La Sonara Matanzera,
Benny More, etc.
I know
in the Salsa scene there are some Brazilian beats and some others,
but I also know they just brought it to say Salsa is a Worldwide music.
To dance to Salsa in Cuba back in the 40`s we didn`t need to bring
any Brazilian beat.
If the 97 Bravo CD by Fania was a Tibute to Juan Formell, it doesn`t
not look like that, since they don`t mention his name on the outside
credits.It actually looks like a plagio.
Is so
hard to type on the CD ?" This is a tribute to Los Van Van ",
as Israel "KANTOR" did in his "real" tribute to
LOS VAN VAN.Even more, Israel not even shows his name, but the Fania`s
CD just says "FANIA" . What a tribute !!!!!! -- Abdel Lopez
December
24, 2001 - Afro-Latinos
Hey whats up I Just wanted to say that i think that my black brothers
and sisters from latin America deserve some credit for most of styles.
Latin music has styles like samba, rhumba, cumbia, bomba, plena, salsa,
son, merengue and alot more and i have talked about the dances yet I
think The latin American media does not show blacks much on spanish
Channels In America the latinos you see performing latin music are whites
you would think whites made most styles of latin music I think we need
to see more blacks on latino channels not immitators performing their
music and i hate it when people say the only influence blacks or africans
had on latin music was the drums thats a bunch of bull. the marimbas
came from africa the clave rythem the Shakeres And a whole bunch more
I Just think blacks deserve some credit at least for music as a whole
with out Africa every one will still be dancing the Polka Bye One Love
Never Forget Africa And her Peoples.
December
27, 2002 - Salsa Is Not a Rhythm....It Is A Concept
<< Do you call Salsa to what Jimmy Bosch and Los Jovenes del Barrio
are playing? But, you don`t call the new music coming out of Cuba, Salsa?
I thought Salsa was any mixing of rythms, and that is what Timba is.
>>
Salsa
is not just ANY mixing of rhythms. TIMBA has it's own identity. The
interpretations of Timba are based on the what's taking place currently
in cuban society today. Much like Salsa was in the early 70s. The
musicians in Cuba are adapting what tey perceive and have experienced
and Cuba and transposing it into the music. The Same way a Willie
Colsn & Hector Lavoe discuss about possibly getting mugged or
stabbed in CALLE LUNA CALLE SOL, Cuban musicians discuss the prosititues
walking along El Malecon or the current state of the Union (Communist
Cuba.)
If you
want to you can call it the Cuban version of Salsa. But Cubans refer
to it as Timba. SALSA is no better than TIMBA is and vice-versa. Each
have their own identity. They're terms/concepts, NOT rhythms like
Bomba or Guaguancs. TIMBA means "party". The term SALSA
was used early on to describe the new york experience in the 60s and
70s, not just musically but the daily life of the latino in the city.
Later on it was then that it began being used to describe all the
rhythms that were being played by most of your bands that emerged
in the USA (primarily New York), Puerto Rico and South America. Cuba
was left out of this process due to the economic embargo. But much
of Cuba's innovations and popular music was maintained and further
developed.
TIMBA's a new style deserving of it's own identity. Why do you feel
left out or as if it's an insult if I say it isn't Salsa?....
<<
We mix Latin Jazz, Songo, Mambo, Guaracha and so on. >>
Latin
Jazz and Songo are already mixtures in themselves. When SALSA emerged,
Timba was not a part of that process. Again, if you feel that TIMBA
is a part of the SALSA concept then that's your opinion....
<<
You can call Jimmy Bosh`s music Salsa if you ,as well, do it with
the music played by old Cuban bands such as Arsenio, La Sonara Matanzera,
Benny More, etc. >>
What
Arsenio, Sonora Matancera and Beny More were playing as not SALSA.
At least not what it was referred to as back then. Today you have
Oscar D'Leon and Jose Alberto El Canario covering Beny More and Arsenio
tunes. You can argue that this is merely Cuban music played in the
modern sense. But don't forget the artsits who wrote and arranged
original material. Ruben Blades, Willie Colsn, Hector Lavoe, Ismael
Rivera and others do not fall into the category of "Cuban Music"
performers.....
<<
I know in the Salsa scene there are some Brazilian beats and some
others, but I also know they just brought it to say Salsa is a Worldwide
music. >>
This is absolutely false. Brazilian music was brought into Salsa for
the challenege, innovation and experimentation of fusing it with afro-cuban
music. This was not a purposeful attempt to gain a specific market
as you say. Much if the Brazilian influence in SALSA is a direct result
of the influence that Brazilian music had on Jazz. Jazz was the other
music that many latin music musicians in the USA, and in particular
in NYC where the majority of your SALSA bands emerged from, enjoyed
and loved playing. Rap music ihas become very popular among the youth
in Cuba today. It isn't a coincidence that many timba tunes include
rap verses, rather than your traditional soneos. So like TIMBA, it
was only a matter of time before something that was in vogue in the
cultural surroundings of the environment would have a part of the
music. So in 196s and 70s New York, Brazilian rhythms and elements,
via Brazilian Jazz music, found it's way into Salsa, the way Hip Hop
found its way into TIMBA....
<<
To dance to Salsa in Cuba back in the 40`s we didn`t need to bring
any Brazilian beat. >>
That's
great!
But
the rest of the world isn't Cuba. By any chance, were you around in
the 1940s living in Cuba? Because if you were then you know that NOBODY
was dancing SALSA in those days simply because there was no SALSA
described as either a dance or a music. In Cuba se bailaba Son Montuno
style, Guaracha, Rumba, Danzon, etc.
<<
If the 97 Bravo CD by Fania was a Tibute to Juan Formell, it doesn`t
not look like that, since they don`t mention his name on the outside
credits.It actually looks like a plagio. >>
If you
would have read my post more carefully you'd realize that I statd
that originally, the BRAVO CD was, INTENDED to be a Tribute to Juan
Formell of Los Van Van. But becasue of the Miami Mafia, pressure was
put on SONY to eliminate any mention of Juan Formell, a cuban national,
and eliminate the singers who originally took part in that recording
(Lucrecia, Paulito, Pedro Calvo, Isaac Delgado, etc.).
<<
Is so hard to type on the CD ?" This is a tribute to Los Van
Van ", as Israel "KANTOR" did in his "real"
tribute to LOS VAN VAN. Even more, Israel not even shows his name,
but the Fania`s CD just says "FANIA" . What a tribute >>
Again,
Mr. Lopez, if you know you're people down in Miami, you'd know that
no Cuban artist from CUBA is welcome or is to be paid tribute to.
You say Israel Kantor doesn't show his name on "his" tribute
to LVV. Ask yourself why is that? Isreal Kantor now resides in Florida.
Ask him why he hasn't done any LOS VAN VAN songs in public or anymore
records in tribute to LVV or anyone else from Cuba?
Regardless
of there not being a title saying TRIBUTE TO LOS VAN VAN, it is still
a tribute the same way every song that's covred is a tribute to the
artists who composed the material. When Larry Harlow plays LA CARTERA
it's in tribute to Arsenio Rodriguez. He doesn't have to get up and
announce it on stage for everyone to hear. Just as Israel Kantor doesn't
have to announce Juan Formell's name if he ever had the balls to sing
a LVV tune in Miami. Every song that appears on the FAS BRAVO CD has
Juan Formell's name listed as the composer, or Cesar Pedroso, who
is the Van Van pianist. Perhaps a magnifying glass would be in order
next time you listen to the CD and decide to read the credits.....
"El
Rumbero"
January
2, 2002 - Abdel's response to Richie Rumbero
In the early 7O`s Fania started the Salsa deal with old cuban music
as you can see in the movie Our Latin Thing, they tried to change the
formats and the instruments to make it less cuban, what was the best
for their business. Salsa as Timba comes straight from the Son.
Timba
is more than party, Timba is freedom of speech, freedom of formats,
team work, any musician could shine on stage not just a pretty face
singer, Timba is to keep the same musicians in the band, to make music
to dance instead for listening or sale.
Salsa
is the comercial way of the Son, Timba is the new way of making Son.
Salsa
is the Son in jail, because the limtis put by companies, Timba is
the Son free in the mountains.
Salsa
is the lion in prison, Timba is the lion in the country, free.
Richie ,
When you said this
<< The term Salsa was used early on to describe the New York experience
>> (in the 60s and 70s)
Why
didn`t you say that they started that experience with Sones, Guarachas,
Rumbas, Cuban music until they created the Salsa name for sale purposes.
And
if The 97 Bravo by Fania has the credits should be inside, because
outside it doesn`t, I didn`t buy the CD, so I don`t know about the
inside. Now, do people need to buy the CD to know is kind of a tribute
? and they will, if they know about music and about Van Van.
January
8, 2003 - Cuban Music Discussion
Everyone, two words "El or La Tropical" (it varies), recent
documentary film on "dancing" in Cuba, which references the
different dancing rythms. Unlike here in the USA and most on2 dancers
everywhere, most salsa dancers only dance salsa or structured dance,
that is not so at El Tropical they dance the rythm of whatever the music
that is playing is. La Tropical is an outdoor dancehall with a 4,000
person capacity. I admire anyone who gets up, dances and tries their
best, but . . . I have seen people dance salsa style to everything including
hip hop. >From my view, most on2 dancers really do dance too rigid
in a structure. It may appear not be be so, because you see some body
movement, however, this is learned body movement not responsive. If
you have never danced freestyle, I cannot expect those people to understand.
In African dance you have to let go and be free, you do learn steps,
but you are told to let go and express yourself, also the dance is very
movement and emotion oriented not footwork focused. This is a tough
topic. I once took a RMT class at Latin Quarter and I loved that at
the end of the class, they did a salsa-soul train line where they told
people to just go, respond to the music, do whatever, don't worry about
steps, etc. I notice that whenever I compliment a dancer for being responsive
to the music and a real mover many times it is someone from Razz M Tazz
and I would say that this may be why. School wars, forget about it,
it is all dance, my preference or yours that is all, I am eclectic.
I am referring to social dancers. Dance company dancers are different
because they are picked for their more advanced potential or acomplishment,
dedication and are trained differently so one should never compare themselves
to that circumstance. Part of great dancing is actually loving the music
not just liking it. I know the difference because I like salsa, but
- I looooove African, reggae, etc. I cannot listen to the music I love
and not respond, when I am at a concert I am moving and holding myself
back not to get up at the wrong time. If it is an outdoor event I am
dancing, I cannot sit, everyone else can have the seats. It is orgasmic,
emotional and totally passionate. This has not happened to me in salsa
yet and may never. We should all appreciated and accept each other for
our varying levels of social dance, we are not performers, lets not
get crazy, some have more dedication than others. I don't believe you
should only social dance if are at an advanced level, whatever level
if fine. Back to El Tropical, I cannot stress how much I loved this
film. This is a dancehall where the dancers come to DANCE, not stand
around and pose, judge others, etc. The music is for the dancers, the
bands must kick-some ass here and there is a great relationship between
the two. The dancers do turn patterns but the weight is in their responsiveness
to the music, the dancing is repeated emotional orgasms, the bodies
are moving and work it to the music. This is not a place for the squeamish,
if you are inhibited and too conservative, stay home or be shocked.
If you dance hard dancehall reggae you are getting what I am talkling
about and if you only seen it but not danced it, whatever you are thinking
you are so wrong. It is sensual, emotional and passionate but not sexual.
Now for the Afro-Latino comment, El Tropical is where the working class
black Afro-Cubans go and the white Cubans or thinking themselves so
or whatever stay away at any soci-ecomonic level (bigotry abounds).
This film was an awakening to salsa dancing and Cuban dancing and music,
as I had mostly been exposed to the slow drawing sounding type, cut
but not my thing. As Ray Baretto said, if it ain't got the African it
aint' salsa (referring to NY Salsa). There is a 77 year old woman at
El Tropical who has been dancing for life and can put most of us to
shame, she really loves the music and to dance to the music and has
to dance to the music. As Ballanchine said, I want a dancer who has
to dance, not wants to dance. Once again I know the difference, when
I have to dance, the music controls me, I cannot stop, I once silently/conflicitingly
begged the musicians to end the song during an endless live performance
as they can play extremely long and the music is so powerful, because
I go into a trance, it feels so good and it and you blissfully wiped
out, we all know that feeling. If you see ceremonial/vudu dancing and
never experienced that I cannot explain. That is how dance originated
ceremonially. I digressed from my original point. See the film and see
some dancing. Some of the dancing reminds me of reggae dancing where
your body just passionately grooves to the music, you surrender to the
music. It is great documentarty and does not bypass the racism or poverty
problem, but does not depress, dance is the main thing and the story
of the dancers. I looked and thought, I could not imagine most on2 dancers
dancing so free.
El Tropical has an answer to your questions, but not a resolution.
-- From New York On2 who Just Loves to Dance --
La Tropical Overview
The story of "La Tropical," Havana's popular outdoor dance
hall, is told like a love story in the hands of director David Turnley.
In an atmospheric swirl of black-and-white, the regulars of the hall
loom large in weekend dramas of romance, passion, lust, the transforming
power of music and dance, and the triumphs and travails of Cuba's
Black population.
The focus here is on sensuality, sexuality and African-inspired dance
that emphasizes movement of the pelvis, rather than the feet. The
camera moves close up on shaking butts, grinding hips, graceful arms
and a joyful sense of purpose that completes the performance package.
Turnley, a White, Pulitzer Prize-winning photojournalist who in recent
years has turned to documentary, takes the role sometimes of an informed
commentator and, at other times, of a giddy voyeur, treating the dancing
Black female form like eye candy.
The video starts in slow motion, with a shot upward of a young, smiling
woman churning her hips opposite a dance partner. It captures the
frenzy of two wild women on stage, rubbing their crotches, with their
panties visible, hard against Pedrito, the fine lead singer for the
band, Los Van Van. It winds down with shots of the entire hall visible
though a pair of flapping Black thighs.
Often positioned in the midst of gyrating bodies, the 96-minute documentary
captures the impersonal intimacy included in many Caribbean dances,
which take bumping and grinding, or "winding" to the limit.
Debate, if you want, issues of origin and cross-pollenization but
it is clear that dances at La Tropical have much in common with your
average performance on an average rap video from these United States.
What sets this video apart from other good-time concert flicks is
the extent to which it goes outside the concert hall and gives voice
to dancers and performers. Here, on the streets and in the homes of
Havana, moving bodies become people with histories, aspirations, challenges,
triumphs and tragedies. There is the poor young man in love with a
girl from the other side of the tracks. There is the family of performers
caring for a teen-ager with disabling cerebral palsy. There is the
77-year-old dance hall diva, a real character who goes by the name
Tikitiki, who swears her Sunday visits to La Tropical keep her alive.
It is through these stories, as well as through a series fruitful
interviews, that "La Tropical" empowers the voices of those
being featured and becomes less about typical Euro-American voyeurism.
It also becomes a story about race in Cuba. Most of the hall's patrons
are working class Blacks; very few Cubans who consider themselves
"White" go there. While the revolution has vastly improved
life for the island's majority Black and "mulatto" populations,
entrenched race divisions that are also class divisions still remain.
Toward the end, a carload of elderly Black Cubans, leaving La Tropical
after a rainstorm, praise the social changes seen on the island in
their lifetime. But a young White guitarist for a troupe of Flamenco
artists-obviously not as popular as the bands of La Tropical—rails
against the lot that fate has dealt him. He wants to go to Florida.
He sings a morose song that can remind you of Ricky Martin's "La
Vida Loca," as if he is imagining how, with his White skin and
musical ability, he could be living large in another place. Through
an engaging mix of such voices and ideas, Turnley manages to tell
a story bigger than La Tropical, one that is as time—worn and
winding as Old Havana's churning streets -- Anon, New York City
February
26, 2003 - Cuban Music Discussion
Who
owns salsa??
Having
read the debate on why Cuban salsa isn't played more in clubs and
the arguments as to which is better, Cuban or New York, it seems to
me that the same old issues occur wherever people listen / dance to
salsa. I am from England and I have heard this time and time again...
An important
question is who owns salsa?? There is no doubt that Cuban son had
a heavy influence on early salsa but let's remember that the birthplace
of the modern sound we recognise as salsa (i.e big bands rather than
quartets or quintets) was New York and was a much influenced by Puerto
Rican immigrants and the Afro-American jazz scene as it was by Cuban
son. Cuban son itself originated from African slaves.
As for
the dance, the whole idea of formalised partner dances (ballroom)
originated in the royal courts of Europe and waas adapted for the
latin sound.
So, who
owns salsa?? Everybody. No country is the birthplace nor can claim
to be the 'original and best' salsa. As a dance teacher and musician,
I have realised that people prefer to dance to North American and
Puerto Rican salsa because of its more energetic sound but prefer
to sit down and listen to Cuban styles. Whatever turns you on.
As for
the most exciting salsa music and dancing coming out now? I would
say it is coming from artists who dare to fuse salsa with other sounds
- hip-hop (Orishas, from Cuba), African sounds (Africando) or even
Arabesque Rai. Salsa is a FUSION so lets not limit ourselves.
Ivan
from England
February
28, 2003 - Ivan's E-mail
This
is the kind of response I expected from a person from England. Great
Britain, the birthplace of Ballroom dancing and unthinking followers
of American foreign policy and American pop culture. Other Europeans
dance Cuban style salsa. The reason for this is because they are not
as willing to accept americanized, colonized, prepackaged versions
of Latin dancing.
Number
one
What makes you think there were no big bands in Cuba? Have you ever
heard of Beny More? Have you ever heard of Felix Chappotin, the trumpeter
who some consider the Louis Armstrong of Cuba music? What kind of
bands entertained the mobsters and tourists in the 1950's ? Traditional
son cubano bands? No, big bands from Cuba. Cuba is where Jazz was
introduced into Latin music not New York. Cubans were incorporating
Jazz into clave based music long before the era of Fania in the 1970's.
Certainly,
the great Puerto Rican musicians in New York and changed the sound
and we might even say innovated the sound. This doesn't mean they
created an entirely new music. You say nobody owns salsa. The word
"salsa" was invented so that they could own the music. With
the new word, they could claim ownership of the music and negate the
work of other people that lead up to it. People in New York always
say salsa is a concept not a rhythm. Of course, it is a rhythm. It
It is the rhythm of Cuban son montuno. But if they admit that then
they have to admit it is basically the same music.
Nobody
owns Salsa. But certainly someone owns the music and record companies.
The reason why Cuban music is not popular is because it hardly heard.
When Celia Cruz became popular in the United States many people in
Cuba didn't know who she was. She became popular with New York salsa.
Her music is not Cuban salsa. It is difficult to hear Cuban music
because of the American trade embargo. Cuban music is not energetic?
What Cuban music are you listening to? Are you talking about the Buena
Vista Social Club? That has nothing to do with modern Cuban music.
Modern Cuban music was inspired by dancers. I dance to modern Cuban
music. But usually if I want to relax, I put on more commericial salsa,
gilberto Santa Rosa, Luis Enrique. I think your knowledge of Cuban
music is only confined to the Buena Vista Social Club.
Orishas
are a bunch of Cubans who live in Paris !! The only reason you have
heard of them because they have a record deal in Paris !! Orishas
are not the great innovators as they seem. They are great. But they
are just the outgrowth of Cuban hip-hop and rap scene in Cuba. Rap
in Cuba is big only second to the United States.
You say
son is from Africa. Let's say you are right for a second (although
you negating the contribution of European music). If son comes from
Africa it came by way of CUBA. Son did not go directly to New York.
Cuba is the most African of Latin
American countries and its music has more African percussion than
other styles of salsa. So, you like Africando. Cuban music has always
been more African music friendly than New York salsa. The cultural
exchange between Cuba and Africa has always been more open.
Music
is always fusion. I agree. You say Africando has innovated salsa music.
So, should we call it a new name? What do you call the music of Los
Van Van and NG La Banda which had very little influence from New York
salsa? Or have you even heard of these groups? When you the world
salsa, you should use it to describe a certain type of Afro-Cuban
music. Chincub
March
6, 2003 - Cuban Music
Dear
Chincub, Dear oh dear oh dear.... A harmless comment I posted, trying
to say that salsa music is a fusion of so many styles, results in
some narrow minded (some would say racist) insults about my nationality
and the same old tired arguments about Cuban ownership of salsa.
Firstly,
I would rather you didn't pigeon hole me regarding the fact I am from
England. I don't support the war, don't dance ballroom and besides,
it has nothing to do with the debate... Anyway, I'm not even English..I
was born here but I am part French, part Croatian and part Flemmish,
which I guess in your eyes and by your definitions makes me unqualified
to talk about anything since I can't claim any original 'true' roots.
Secondly,
I agree that Cuba had (has) a huge influence on salsa but to state
that it is the home of salsa is meaningless. Salsa is a useful label
for a large and growing group of styles with various influences. No
more, no less. Salsa is not a definition...
Well,
there you go. I'm off to dance some salsa...Cuban, Puerto Rican, New
York, LA, London, Toronto...who knows? And if I forget all these labels,
maybe I might even have some fun! -- Ivan
March
6, 2003 -
Ivan, Perhaps I shouldn't have attacked you personally for the war.
I was attacking the culture you were living and I am sorry for that.
I was hoping for a little more in the way of your response. It is too
bad you didn't address my criticism or examples. Probably they were
a bit over your head. When people say that salsa is a concept or a definition,
I think they are trying to cover up the fact that they don't know a
lot about the music.
Your
answer is very politically correct. Salsa was taken up by Latinos
in the Toronto and the United States as part of their own identity
although musically most Latin countries outside the Carribean had
little to do with Salsa. By saying Salsa is Cuban and not some kind
of Pan-Latin music, they get insulted. They have nothing else to hold
on to in North America. I mean would a lot of Canadians or other Latinos
go to Peruvian or Chilean music nightclubs? I think not.
You are
the guy at a party nobody wants to talk. The guy who is super nice
but really doesn't know much. Super boring because he can't think
for himself. And repeats opinions he hears from other people because
they sound right and hurt the least amount of of people.
I am
okay, you are okay. Let's love each other. Can't we get along?
This
attitude is not exactly intellectually stimulating.
You say
Salsa is useful label with a growing number of musis styles. Then
you say later, let's forget about labels. You say salsa is a fusion
of different music styles. Which music styles? every music style?
opera? Chinese opera? Do you mean all music styles? Is Reggae Salsa?
You'll
probably ignore this question. Then repeat salsa is name of various
styles. And that we are narrow minded. And you are tired of the same
arguments. And then we should live to live with each other. Then we
should be more open minded and give each other a big hug.
Who's
being closed minded here?
What
about my comment about the big bands in Cuban? You ignored that. That
was a killer. Or is this same tired argument that you think? -- Chincub
March
31, 2003 - Cuban music discussion
Dear
Chincub, I am truly amazed by your insights into my character. I never
knew so much could be interpreted from a couple of emails. Well…here’s
my interpretation of your arguments.
I get
the feeling that you are deliberately trying to generate a response
by attacking me. First my culture, then me directly. A question for
you Chincub. If your arguments are so convincing, why do you insist
on such personal attacks? Glad to hear you know so much about what
I am like…you must point yourself out next time we are at the
same social occasion. I wasn’t aware you partied in London...
OK..let’s
get back to this lovely debate. Well done on your killer argument
about big band Cuban salsa. The trouble here Chincub is that you offer
nothing that can’t be found out from a few choice books on salsa
history and a few discographies. I know this because I have read them
too. Well done on regurgitating a few historical ‘facts’
out of their historical and cultural contexts.
If you
want counter arguments to your chosen facts, just look at this site
and read other people’s responses on the history of salsa. They
have argued it far better than I ever will, because I am not a historian.
However, I am an anthropologist by training and my academic argument
would be that cultural change is a two way process – ideas,
dances, cultures and philosophies emerge from places (multiple places
sometimes), they travel, they pick-up other influences, they mutate
and then they sometimes travel back. Salsa is a perfect example of
this. If you look at salsa as a cultural phenomenon, you will see
that it has a such a broad range of influences and roots (both historically
and geographically) that to call salsa Cuban is meaningless and limiting.
You can’t trace salsa to a single event, a single country, a
single origin. To do so is to hijack a movement for your own purposes
and insult Puerto Ricans, Africans and Americans in the process. This
is not political correctness, it is a fact, it is my argument. I have
no desire to appease anyone for the sake of it Chincub, least of all
someone who I am never likely to meet. I am not trying to placate
anyone. If letting rip was necessary, I would do it. If you presented
ideas worth debating rather than your box of facts, I would debate
them.
You are
trapping yourself in semantics Chincub. Salsa is a very useful badge
for a group of styles. It’s easily accessible and people like
nice, simplistic terms that they can label things with… but
when you dig deeper, you realise that it is not actually that useful.
So, the
conclusion of my argument is if you want to talk about salsa, let’s
talk about a multicultural movement with broad roots...not a specific
Cuban musical or dance style. If you want to talk about history, you
are going to need more labels Chincub – here are some for you
to start with - plena, bomba, rumba, son, cha cha, mambo, pachanga,
cumbia. Argue about those but leave salsa alone….oh and try
to make it less personal next time. -- Ivan
April
1, 2003 - response to Ivan
Ivan,
Let's keep it simple and impersonal. You are not a historian, but
you feel the right to talk about the roots of salsa music. You are
right when you say others have argued better than you about the supposed
diverse origins of salsa music. Too bad you just repeat what they
say without having the knowledge to back it up.
But none
of these people would dare to suggest the Cuba did not have big bands.
Where did you get this information? Which book did you get this information?
How can you say that there were only quartets and quintets? Even people
who would support your argument would laugh at this suggestion. Where
did you get this information? which book? which article? -- Chincub
April
4, 2003 - response to Ivan
A degree
in anthropology, doesn't make you an anthropologist. Academics are
very careful about what they say about areas they don't know about.
And Ivan, you don't anything about Cuban music. You are making people
you support your position look bad. Even if you say Salsa comes from
many places and influences, how can you say that there were no big
bands in Cuba? Is it just a feeling you have and you went with it?
I tried
to find a non-biased book to convince you. I chose
a book published in Great Britain. The Rough Guide to Cuban Music
by Philip Sweeney. It part of the Lonely Planet series. Nowhere in
the book does it claim Salsa came from Cuba.
pg.57
"By the 1930's, son was ready for its next remodelling, and this
came again about the expansion of the groups. The septeto began to
add an extra trumpet or two, creating a brass section, piano, and
the tall conga drums know as tumbadoras. Beny More created his own
Banda Gigante."
Gigante
means big in Spanish, Ivan. They already had a septeto (7), but they
added more band members.
New York
salseros who know Latin music well have heard of
Beny More. Although they might not have agreed that his music was
the basis of salsa, but they know there were more than 5 members in
his band.
pg. 59
"Arsenio Rodriguez and Beny More developed son into a dynamic
style played by even bigger bands."
Manu
Cubans tried to copy the Jazz big bands of the day
in the United States. (Jazz was not introduced into Latin music in
New York. Jazz had a huge influence on Cuban music. But also Cuban
music influenced Jazz. If you watch Ken Burns documentary about Jazz,
Jelly Roll Morton incoporated Latin Tinge into his music. This Latin
Tinge was the Cuban music La Habanera.
This
conjunto set up became the basis of modern salsa bands. Beny More's
and Arsenio Rodriguez normally had more than 10 band members. Is that
not big enough for you? These weren't any fringe groups. These were
the most popular bands of their day. Big bands in this era were the
rule rather than the exception. This was the era of rum, casinos,
gangsters and decadence in Cuba. Do you think quartets and quintets
entertained tha gangsters in La Habana? Haven't you seen Godfather
2?
Do you
know what Orquesta means? Does that mean small to you? Orquesta Aragon
and Orquesta America were very big bands of their day and toured extensively
in the United States. Celia Cruz sang with Sonora Matancera in Cuba.
Do you think she sang with a quartet?
Groups
that developed in the 1970's and 80's with very little influence from
New York were BIG groups. Have you heard of Los Van Van, NG La banda,
Orquesta Reve, Orquesta Anaconda?
You are
basing your knowledge of Cuban music on the Buena Vista Social club.
Most Cubans were suprised at the popularity of this kind of music.
Eliades Ochoa and and Cuarteto Patria are more popular outside Cuba
than within Cuba because Cubans are more used to more urban, big band
music. Ibrahim Ferrer, "Guajiro" Mirabal and Ruben Gonzalez
were all part of the BIG BANDs in Cuba at one time or another.
Your
position would be laughable if you were a salsa dance teacher of some
kind. Other people have to "unteach" fallacies you have
taught your students. And you are so prejudiced to learn more about
music.
Maybe
salsa is from New York or from everywhere as you said. But saying
that Cuba didn't have big bands is just ridiculous and wrong. -- Mechy
