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2002 Berlin Competition Controversy Dear
Readers, I guess a subject of debate which everyone always talks about
with their friends is now being publicly aired for everyone to voice
their feelings and opinions. |
| Our Reader asked... | |
| Our Feedback... | March 9 , 2002 from Max |
| March 10, 2002 - chincub | |
| March 10, 2002 - Orphelia | |
| March 11, 2002 - Riguel | |
| March 12, 2002 - Jennifer Aucoin, Berlin Contest Organizer | |
| March 12, 2002 - Amanda | |
| March 13, 2002 - Troy | |
| March 13, 2002 - BJ | |
| March 14, 2002 - Juan | |
| March 15 - Troy's response to Juan | |
| March 16 - Mike | |
| March 18 - Rene Delgado's response to BJ | |
| March 18 - Rene Delgado's response to Mike | |
| March 19 - Josue | |
| March 21 - Ivy's response to Mike! | |
| March 21 - Juan's response to Troy | |
| March 22 - Mike's response to Ivy | |
| March 24 - Ophelia's reponse to Juan | |
| March 25 - Juan's response to Ophelia | |
| March 26 - Troy's response to Juan | |
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New!
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March 27 - Frank |
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The Feedback.... March
9, 2002 -- Amateur Competition To
the Salsa Community March 10, 2002 -- No Fix at Berlin's Dear Rose, I was there at Berlin's last Tuesday. I don't think there was a fix. I think the judges acted in good faith. But you have to remind yourself what kind of salsa the judges dance. One is a professional ballroom dancer and the other, a kind of New York, LA style dancer. Both judges are excellent dancers, don't get me wrong. But their criteria is probably based on how they dance and the dancers they have studied with. I, personally being Cuban, liked couple number 4 (Asian guy with the short girl). But I understand why they didn't advance. They made mistakes and they seemed extremely nervous, so they were off beat sometimes. But it seemed they had the most feeling for the music. And they needed some kind of choreography. And on the other hand, couple number 5 had too much choreography and had no feeling for the music. Couple number 6 and couple 1 (the professional guy?) danced extremely close to how the judges dance. I think couple 1 were disqualified maybe because he was professional? Couple number 2 did the spins very well and probably studied a lot with teachers like the judges. But personally, I thought they looked stiff and had no feeling for the music. It was nice to see couple number 3 advance doing variations on the basic step. Some thought it was classic salsa dancing (although it really wasn't). But I think it is a good competition. Although I think they should have more variety with the judges. Cuban dancing is not as flashy as other styles, although it is more difficult than it looks. I am sure the best dancer in Cuba wouldn't win the professional dance competition at Berlin's. But I can understand why -- Chincub March 10, 2002 -- March 5th at Berlin In response to the outrageous remarks made about the competion being fixed, I would like to ask people not to assume and then throw assumptions out at the rest of us as if they were absolute truth. Couple number six may have been late. But it is an insult to speculate that they were teacher/student or "not really amateur" just because they had rhythm and style. I've seen both of them around, and neither is a professional. They dance very often and are very passionate about their dance. I've taken workshops along with the gentleman in this couple and have seen him learn with the rest of us. Rather, you should be appreciative of the fact that he is not a professional, yet still knows his stuff quite well. If you don't know them yet you are throwing such acusations out at them, don't you think it smacks of jealousy? They were a far cry ahead of everyone, including the little choreographed number Rose spoke of. Choreography is worthless if it's only that, and if there is no soul and passion between the dancers. Couple number three, i believe, the lady in the leopard outfit - now that was fire. One can live salsa vicariously through dancers such as them. And finally, I hope couple number 6 does win the entire thing, as they did the best job. See you all at the next round -- Orphelia March 11, 2002 -- Berlin's Salsa Competition I must say, I was quite disappointed in the judging that occured at Berlin's Salsa Competition on March 5th. Can it be more obvious that the competition was fixed? Here's a word of advice to those of you who lost last week...Don't take the competition seriously. The judging that took place, does not clearly indicate how good of a dancer you are, but who you know. First off, I was quite surprised that on Tuesday, their were 6 couples who entered the amateur division. According to the rules and regulations posted on the web, the maximum is 5 couples per category. During the competition, I could not help but notice beside me couple no. 6 nervously comptemplating if they should compete. The guy was more persistent and trying hard to persuade the girl to dance. Next thing I knew, I saw them on the dance floor ready to compete as couple #6. I go to enough Salsa clubs to notice that they belong to a group/school, who always manages to place. Personally, I think the couple who performed a routine, as opposed to freestyle (couple no. 5???) as well as 1 and 3 should have been given the opportunity to advance to the semi-finals. But hey what do I know, my judement is not as corrupted as the judges present at Berlin -- Riguel March
12, 2002 For starters, the reason why the competition was limited this year to 5 couples per category was due to time constraints (the band is supposed to go on at 11:30 and if we had more than 10 couples in one night, the contest would take too long). Last week, 2 couples were allowed to enter at the last minute because I knew there were no professionals competing that evening and thus knew that the contest would not go over the time limit. As for the couples who qualified to the semi-finals, that is based on the marking criteria, not on who knows who or who dances the same style as the judges. For the preliminary round and the semi-finals, the couples are not judged on their choreography (they will be judged on choreography in the finals). The contestants are judged on their technical skills (are they neat? is there variety and complexity?), their timing (do they stay on a consistent beat?) couple dynamics (is there chemistry? are they compatible?), their style (do they portray confidence? enjoyment?) and their showmanship (do they have stage presence? do they project energy?). The judges
that I have selected for the contest must all meet certain criteria:
that they are very familiar with and can appreciate all different
styles of salsa (Cuban, New York, LA, Toronto, Colombian, dancing
on 1 and dancing on 2, etc.), that they have experience teaching salsa,
that they have experience performing and/or competing, and that they
are objective and can be fair and unbiased. In a city with a salsa
community as small as Toronto's and with a limited budget, it is impossible
to have judges who do I find it thoughtless for someone to lash out and criticize a contest if they have not done their homework and do not know how the contestants are being judged or on what the competition is based. If someone has any comments to make about the integrity of the competition, they are free to email me directly at jenaucoin@hotmail.com March 12, 2002 -- Berlin Competition I too agree with Jennifer in regards to the previous e-mails, they are voicing there own opinions but who are we to judge in what they say. Except that they are not considerate. It's not fair to be putting down all those couples who have competed. Give them credit for participating in this competition, it takes guts to do it, they worked hard to get to where they are. Can't we all just get along! I didn't make it to watch the competition today, so hopefully when I'm back online tomorrow I hope not to ready anything offending. Hope to read positive feedback. See you all next week at the SEMI-FINALS. Amanda March 13, 2002 -- Response to salsa competition Well...well...well, it seems I opened up a can of worms. First off, jealousy is not even part of the equation on my part. Secondly, I believe Jennifer made some fair comments about the criteria and judging. Thirdly, I am not being critical of any of the dancers. I agree with you Amanda that it takes guts to enter these contests. You see I know someone personally who has entered professional contests and knows that they won't win because the fix is in. For instance, I don't deny that couple number 3 (the older couple) has passion for salsa, but when you only have 4 moves I don't think passion can make up for their shortcomings. Now couple #5 last wk didn't make it to the semis but yesterday they competed again and for some odd reason they made it to the semis and they advised me that the competition was tougher. How can one explain their elimination one week, then their inclusion a week later? I'm dumbfounded by that one. If anyone has answers then please respond. It's been long known that these competitons are fixed, those who deny it should get their heads out of the sand -- Troy March
13, 2002 Finally,
I thought that last night was the best yet throughout the the competition.
People made it that should have and the one that didn't - well ---
didn't. I know everyone can't agree, especially if they have friends
competing, but hopefully the rest of the competition is a lot less
controversial and more like last night. I'm outta... BJ March 14, 2002 -- Berlin Competition Hi Rose knows, First off, I really do enjoy the attention that the 2002 Berlin dance competition has drawn to the Toronto salsa scene as well as your "Dear TOsalsa!" section; I love the input of the fans, it shows a healthy interest in Salsa dancing among your readers. Nevertheless, even a good topic such as the Berlin one can be just covered to death. Already several letters that have more than encompassed the topic of the 2002 Berlin dance competition. From the alleged poor judging to the competition being possibly being fixed, enough already, I say! Let's not over analyze this, but rather agree that the one who ultimately benefits from this is everyone and lets continue having fun. How about getting back to basics by covering other just as interesting areas dealing with salsa dancing, perhaps the groups who visit and play in greater Toronto (i.e. Fruko, Mayonesa, or Sonora) or other just a well known clubs in your area. The universe does not revolve around just one club guys -- Juan, Miami Florida March
15, 2002 -- Re: Juan's comments March
16, 2002 Every year people complain about judging. Judging dancing is similar to judging figure skating. There is a large subjective element uneasily co-existing with the technical element. Even the starting order of the competitors without a random draw can open a can of worms. Elizabeth Sadowska is probably one of the most respected instructors around - given her deep dance, competition and instruction experience. Will it get to the point where dancers will have to incorporate compulsory elements into their choreographed two minute routines preset to music issued 3 months before? Given the one shot opportunity that a competition normally offers in assessing competitors' ability to produce and perform on demand, returning week after week to try to get a winning score completely undermines what a competition represents. "Third time a charm" is not an option. If one wants to compete, then one must deal with all of these factors and perform once and once only. "If you cannot stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen." Some of Ivy's 13 March column comments were a little 'over-the-top'. She expressed disappointment about "most of the amateurs were just casual social dancers" And she complains, "How can you have more dance groups if there's not enough new recruits to draw from?" Such an outlook will not attract people to compete, let alone audition for a dance company. I have seen a number of 'salsa dance company' performances over the past few years and while what I have seen is impressive and entertaining, it is not Salsa. It is Jazz danced to salsa music- usually 'on two'. Ivy may be looking in the wrong place to re-stock her pool of dance company dancers. If she wants jazz - given her expectation of shines, tricks, 'betty-boops', dips and outrageous choreography to unheard music - then she should be recruiting at the jazz studios. Jazz dancers have all the characteristics she wants and it is easy to train them to move to a nominal salsa beat. Her ideal dancers spend most of their time apart anyway - self absorbed doing shines and tricks a la east coast swing, the very antithesis of salsa. Perhaps a salsa competition should be just that, a competition where couples actually do something that is clearly recognizable as the steamiest, flirtiest dance of all - Salsa. Some of those amateur 'casual social dancers' tried to combine showy flashy dips and tricks with elements that most salseros and salseras recognize. Ivy should remember that some of the sexiest and the most entertaining salsa dancing occurs not in the clubs or in the competitions but spontaneously in the sultry hot summer streets where salsa bands perform. All that said, I'm dying to see what 2003 brings on the Toronto Salsa scene! Mike March 18, 2002 -- Rene Delgado's response to BJ's comments First let me say that the judges are as good as most of the other instructors/dancers in Toronto. Though we have some strong "on 2" dancers, Toronto has only been dancing on two for approx. 2 years. There are also some people, that you may think should be a judge, but are biased to dancing different styles/timing. It would be totally wrong to have such a judge (I only know of a few). As for how good the judges are???? Without knowing who they are or even looking at their scoresheets who can really say? I know Elizabeth has performances under her belt (Latin Ballroom or otherwise), has judged and taught for a number of years. This would lead me to believe that she would at know what to look in a competition/show. I have never seen Karen teach but I know that she is a good performer. Both can dance "on 2" and have been exposed and have some experience to all the different styles. That being said I think that the judges are in a better position to judge than most of the regular dancers/spectators who may go on emotion, friendship or preference to a particular style/timing and not necessarily their abilities and or performance. I do agree with BJ that, if someone makes a mistake, the judges may not be able to tell who made the mistake (leader/follower) unless they have the proper training. However, unless it's very noticeable, and in my opinion the most important part of a competition is "how good a show is", they should be marked down some but it shouldn't make or break a performance. Mind you, a great show's attributes include the choreography, stage presence, timing, compatibility, etc... Perhaps Berlin's should rotate the judges every year if not at least have new/extra judges for the semi's and/or finals. Again there are only a handful of judges who would be qualified. Another option is to bring a judge or judges in from out of town. I believe that this may have been done last year. I know that we can't always agree who should have won and even I sometimes shake my head at a decision. However, think about this: If there are 3 judges watching a performance and one of the judges is marking a couple that makes a huge mistake. This one judge may have not seen the mistake and thus may mark them highly. Whereas the other two judges may give them low marks. Remember a judges eyes can't always be on the competitors every second of the competition. I've been a judge before (not at Berlins) and let me tell you it's not as easy as it looks. Well
now here is an interesting topic for me...... Yes last year a United
Salseros instructor and their students won all three categories (amateur,
semi-pro & professional). Are we that good? Well....I'd like to
think that we (Stephanie, Teddy and I) do produce some of the best
dancers around. I'd also like to point out that UnitedSalseros is in no way involved with the competition. We in fact teach and promote at Tequila Lounge on the same day as Berlin's Tuesday. I'll let Jennifer and or Giovanni defend the organization of the competition and Los Salsomanos. However, I will say that currently there are a handful, maybe two, really good dancers in T.O. and that many are in more than one dance group as well (a headache for us Directors). So yes if these same people compete they would have a good chance of placing every year. However, just as we've seen these (current) top dancers explode in the scene there will be others that are there in the wings now that you will probably see next year. Some will be associated with us and/or with other dance groups/schools as well. I feel this topic has dragged on long enough, so whatever the result of the Berlin competition is, whether or not the winners or losers, are associated with us - instead of obssessing whether the competition is fixed, focus on the elements that landed the competitors their winning status. Then perhaps one will understand as to why most of the competitors who have won are either associated with us or other prominent dance schools or troops. Though some negativity comes out of these discussions this also raises awareness of the scene as well as how the general dance scene feels and or views things. Rene
Delgado P.S.
Live, Love, Laugh, y Salsa March 18, 2002 -- Rene Delgado's reply to Mike Comments How to
get more performers??? As for Salsa being Jazz. It's still Salsa with Jazz and other dance elements incorporated into it. This is what Salsa is today. This is also what most people want to see and learn. An instructor will only stay in business if he knows what his clientele wants (at least for the intermediate and advanced students). As nice as steamy and flirtatious looks on the dance floor, it won't win any competitions and people would not want to pay $$ for it. People want to see Salsa being steamy and flirty but at the same time they want to see dips, spin, flips and anything new a performer can add and be different and better if at least at the same level as the other competitors. I too am waiting to see what 2003 holds. Regards, Rene March
19, 2002 I've read the comments directed towards Ivy, Jenifer and the Berlin judges. Most of these comments are quite silly. I feel that individuals who believe that this competition is "fixed" in the true sense of the word are confused. The organizers and the judges have specific criteria that they are looking for and are also biased towards a certain style. In this sense it is fixed. However, the judges are not hired by the International Figure Skating Union, and Toronto is not Salt Lake City. If you want to compete and do well you have to know how to please the judges. This is how judged competitions work. The level of specificity of the competition with respect to criteria depends on the organizers. Therefore, if people disagree with how the Berlin competition organizers are running things, then they should organize their own competition with their own rules in stead of spouting irrelevant, derogatory rhetoric that can only serve to limit the salsa scene in general. It is unconstructive to comment on what "is" and "isn't" salsa and how a certain competition should be run. If you want to battle on the dance floors at the clubs because you feel that you don't want to be forced to dance in a certain way, then so be it. If you love participating in weekly lessons and training for specific events that are judged in a certain way, then so be it. Progression and evolution occur as a result of constantly analyzing what is going on in a certain environment and exploiting the gradient of styles that is salsa and dance in general. If you disagree with being open minded, then you've got problems. Argue with that. Josue March
21, 2002 - Ivy's response to Mike Mike,
I am not really sure why I was mentioned in your commentary. First
of all, I don't remember ever writing something on my column since
Javier has been doing the updates on OurSalsaThing.com. What baffles
me the most is that you've quoted me, did we have a conversation?.
do I even know you?. Now-a-days, dancers are much more involved and educated about salsa than before. People are actually taking the time to learn not only about dancing but also about music. When you compete, even if you are an amateur, there is a level that you must fulfil. You can't just dance to dance, unfortunately competitions are about who is the best and who impresses the most. I have been in the salsa scene since the age of 15 and began competing at the age of 16 and I have seen more amateur dancers in the last two years become professionals than ever before. Most of them are now in dance companies. How did that happen? Well they took the time to learn and they opened their minds and tried something new. You said "I have seen a number of 'salsa dance company' performances over the past few years and while what I have seen is impressive and entertaining, it is not Salsa". Let me ask you Mike, what is it then?. I'm not sure how long you have in the scene but salsa has evolved and it has become more complex and it is now filled with a variety of styles that one can choose from. Personally, I like to dance on2 which is Mambo/Salsa New York style. The music that I choose is never what you hear at the clubs because I like to be original. Salsa or Jazz it doesn't matter, it's Latin music. When I hear a song and decide to do a choreography, for the most part I have chosen it because it moved me. I never choose a song because it is trendy or because that's the only song people know of. Dance companies are supposed to be "outrageous" otherwise we wouldn't be professionals. That's what differentiates a social dancer from a professional. We put a lot of time and money travelling, taking workshops and trying to become the best. Maybe you are not able to understand but once you get to a certain level it is no longer just dancing salsa but creating art. It's all about creating something unique and progressive. Choreography is about creating a story and developing a killer routine that cannot be copied easily. After all who doesn't like to stand out from the rest.... I know I do. "If she wants jazz - given her expectation of shines, tricks, 'betty-boops' (by the way it is suzy Q's), dips and choreography to unheard music - then she should be recruiting at the jazz studios". Mike, I look for talented dancers, it doesn't matter if they have no training. Currently I have three dancers who I consider amateurs but they have incredible potential. I have been training them and now one of them is dancing with the company as a principal. When I began On Beat I had just returned from New York after a 5 month trip. When I formed my group many of my dancers had to get use to the different movements that I was showing them. Some of the dancers were intermediate and some where advanced. It wasn't easy but we worked hard. One of the reasons On Beat became so successful was because we were original and if you have seen what I have choreographed then you'd realize that I like to take risks. "Her ideal dancers spend most of their time apart anyway - self absorbed doing shines and tricks a la east coast swing, the very antithesis of salsa". I am not sure what level of a dancer you are but in the professional circuit a dancer is respected by the more they know. That is what makes you want to learn from them, knowing that they can teach you something new. Shines are a part of the dancing sex appeal, if you see a couple dance you see how much they enjoy the feel of call and answer through the sequence of improvised shines that they do. It's all about being playful and sexy. Many said that dancing on2 would take years to take off in Toronto, I knew otherwise and I have stuck by it and promoted mambo/salsa dancing. One thing I have learned more about in the past few years is about music and I can tell you that some of Tito Puente's most memorable music has been Latin Jazz. Which, by the way is the preferred type of music used in congresses around the world. Jimmy Bosch, Poncho Sanchez, Cal Tjader, Machito, Eddie Palmieri.... they've done both Latin jazz and salsa. You may not know it, but a lot of the tunes played in the clubs are Latin jazz. Salsa can be danced to, not only Colombian legends like Grupo Niche or Puerto Rican favorites like El Gran Combo and but also to a lot of the artists I mentioned above. One of the hottest bands to come out of New York is Azabache, listen to their music and you realize that it is very much influenced by Latin jazz. "Ran Kan Kan" is considered Latin Jazz... "La Malangua" is considered Latin Jazz... I can go on forever. Frankie Martinez choreography is done to one of Eddie Palmieri's famous Latin jazz/salsa song, "la Libertad". I hope this has cleared up and informed you a little about what I do and what I look for. For me dancing salsa is not just dancing anymore it is about using your sense of rhythm and creating art. Que viva
la Salsa, el Mambo, y toda la musica Latino Americana! March
21, 2002 -- Juan's response to Troy Second, what happened to [the American] my country’s freedom of speech law? Absolutely nothing, it's still there last time I checked. The [American] Bill of Rights’ [of 1791] First Amendment is still there protecting the rights of US citizens’ access to freedom of speech. But in this case, wouldn’t your argument have more validity referring to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [of 1982] that protect the rights of free speech in Canada instead since the venue of the 2002 Berlin Dance competition takes place in Toronto, Canada and not in the United States, Troy? “Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;” Troy, in answering your questions, my position is the following…..Go and debate and discuss Berlin till your heart’s content, my salsa colleague, in fact I encourage it, as much as I find it stale at this point, others obviously do not. I am no one to tell you as well as others what to write about. But, Troy, please do not confuse my (a) suggesting to discuss something else more interesting with (b) me telling you what to debate and discuss. I’m just saying that if you are going to discuss Berlin, just make the subject matter interesting and stimulating or discuss something else that is, that it. You’re missing the point entirely, Troy!!! March
22, 2002 -- Oops to Ivy I stand by the rest of my letter regarding judging - competitors' re-visits - jazz or salsa. And it is good to see some healthy discussion on what is salsa? what is jazz and what is dance? I leave you with one question. I saw a dancer perform letter perfect flamenco to rap. Is it flamenco? Is it rap? Is it....? fill in the blanks folks. ciao, Mike March 24, 2002 -- my $0.02 Dear Juan, I would like to know how exactly is it that you, being in Florida and all, can tell whether the Berlin competition discussion is stale or not. It's truly nice to see American readers participate in our discussion, but last time I checked you were geographically unqualified to comment on what is or isn't interesting in Toronto. Does the fact that you know of our Charter put you right at the top? You seem to feel that it makes you almost overqualified. We love this competition, and if we may, we shall discuss it till it bores whoever. Thankfully, Rose made a special little corner for us to stay out of your way. Thus I hope we are no longer imposing "stale" comments regarding only the most exciting and fun thing going on in Toronto right now. Perhaps if you attended, if you felt the energy, if your friends gave their everything on stage and danced from their hearts - as our friends do - perhaps then you would also like to defend them and encourage them. Until then, we shall not call Calle Ocho boring just because we are way up north in T.O. We shall not try to patronize Salseros in Florida by telling them their discussions are stale and overdone. After all, aren't we Canadians well known for saying "please" and "thank you"? Good luck to all of you competing in the professional semi-finals on Tuesday! Rose, thank you for the continuous coverage and pictures:) -- Ophelia March 25, 2002 - 2002 Berlin Competition Controversy, my $0.02 Dear TOsalsa & Ophelia:
I happen to find the Berlin discussion lacking a fresh perspective because in reading previous correspondences, I find the same thing has been reiterated over and over again. It’s the silly allegations it has been generating. I’m glad that you, Ophelia, find it a welcome sight for American readers to participate in “your” public discussions. Ophelia, you say that I am “geographically” unqualified to comment on what is or isn’t interesting in Toronto, Canada. Then tell me who is qualified, Ophelia? From what you are telling me, only Canadians have the right to comment, no one else. What if I happen to visit Toronto several times a year; am I not entitled to voice my personal opinion? Now who is the one imposing their opinion on me, Ophelia? Everyone ought to have the right to make their opinions know in a public forum(s), whether they’d be Canadian or American or from any other foreign entity. Just because I am American, I should have just as much right as you do to voice my opinion, even if my position is an unpopular one. The fact that I do have some knowledge about the Canadian Charter should be a welcome sight to you, at least the opinion that I express is a somewhat informed one and not one based entirely out of pure ignorance and/or unchecked emotion. And no, it does not make me feel overqualified to answer. Anyone with an opinion is qualified to answer, whether it is wrong or right, Canadian or American, popular or unpopular, etc. That is why they are called “opinions” and that is why we can share them in a public forum such as this one. Ophelia, please be aware, I have nothing against the competition or you for that matter. In my view, Rose created this special little corner for you guys not to stay out of my way, rather to give the Berlin controversy it's own respective home. If Berlin is the only fun and exciting thing available in Toronto, then perhaps the time is ripe for Toronto’s salsa community to expand the variety of events offered to local salseros there. Ophelia, by all means please impose your “stale” comments. I believe that the merits of my argument will only be reinforced in a venue where this controversy will only matter to just a handful of people, while the rest of Toronto answers in a passive manner, but then again what would I know. In a year from now, all of this won’t even matter. My stance on this issue is NOT in anyway meant to become a regional or nationalistic one, rather a salsero one. I really don’t see, Ophelia, how you of all people would have to defend your friends. The merits of their dancing ability will truly outshine any obstacle in their path. Ophelia, you say that we, I’m assuming Torontonians or Canadians, using your example, cannot call Calle Ocho [Festival] boring just because you are all the way up in Toronto, but what if you had attended a Calle Ocho [Festival] while on vacation and had found it boring?? It is your duty to express that opinion, if for all else to make changes and improve on it. Tell me, what would be wrong with that? You say you shall not try to patronize Florida salseros by telling them their discussions are stale and overdone. Ophelia, in my judgment, you would be patronizing them and doing them a disservice if you did find an event, or discussion, or whatever boring and you said nothing for the sake of etiquette, or to be politically correct. That in my mind is called being a hypocrite. In concluding, Ophelia, when I visit good friends and acquaintances in Toronto, my mom, god rest her soul, told me those same "magic" words that open most doors, they are, “Please”, “May I”, and “Thank You.” I don’t see them as exclusively a Canadian thing, but rather a decent human being thing. Kudos to Rose for providing this forum for discussion, keep up the good work.
Godspeed to All, March 26, 2002 -- Response to Juan Well Juan, it's nice to see you have clarified your statements. I can sleep better at night now. Just kidding! Listen, this is never personal with me. I think it's great we can all discuss whatever is on our minds. Ophelia did make a point thought when she stated that you wouldn't know if this subject of the competition is stale because you weren't at any of the competitions. I'm just glad that many people have different opinions. I respect everyone's opinions, but it doesn't mean I have to like them or agree all the time. My final point on this subject is that salsa competitions have long been fixed and I just find it unfair for anyone who enters that they don't have a fair shot at all if a winner is already picked. Troy March 27, 2002 -- Berlin Salsa Competition Judges have the right to judge whatever they want in competition, and last night's Berlin competition was no exception. First, if the song was selected randomly (correct me if I'm wrong)--I thought the purpose of this was to see who can adapt to music well enough on a free-style manner? If not, then why not just let the competitors know the song in advanced so at least we can get a better show. Everyone (except for a few) choreograhed--so does that mean they get higher points compared to the ones who improvised? Judges marks should be posted, and although marks are final, one should be able to back up as to why they have marked a competitor as such. If one is objective, they have nothing to worry about. But not posting marks (this is NOT normal in many professional competitions) can enable a judge to hide their discrepancies in judging, and prevent further improvements in the judging system. Remember, no judge is perfect, but many of you are dreaming that if you think all the judges are well rounded enough to see through everything in showmanship, timing, etc., comprehensively. And no, I did not have "friends" in the competition -- Frank
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