October 21, 2002

Dear Tina, it seems we're back to the same old debate about the regulars or advanced salsa dancers not being more available to the beginners. I guess you would need to define that a little more clearly. I can't speak for them all, but I think that many of the regulars only go out to dance for the joy of dancing... and if someone they don't know asks them for a dance, they will usually say "yes". After all, we were all beginners at one time. But if you expect the regulars to go up to someone they're not even sure may know how to salsa dance, they probably won't (including me), unless they also make it a policy to dance with someone new each night. After all, we don't want to be stuck dancing with someone who doesn't even know how!

I even joke with Rene Delgado of United Salseros and call him a snob because when I first started, he met me a few times through friends, but never remembered me or asked me for a dance until I started this site about a year or two later... then he couldn't forget me... (hee hee) But of course since I was only a beginner then, I never had a dance with him (as I never had the nerve to ask him) and it was only after about six months of regularly bumping into each other in the clubs and me dancing with all his other peers, that we finally did have our first dance, and I still tease him until today about that... and being a snob of course... (which he really isn't...) gotcha Rene!

Put the shoe on the other foot, as a seasoned dancer, I don't mind having a dance with someone who's only been dancing a year or so, as I also realize you can learn alot from someone more experienced just from the dance itself. But I do take exception when the guy is pulling my arms off and I politely tell him to lighten up, but he just gives me a glare as if I've insulted him and then continues with the same lead -- that's sheer ignorance. I'm not telling him he's doing it wrong, I'm just asking for a little respect for my sore arms after that dance. Or how about the guy who whiplashes you during a dip because he doesn't know what he's doing. I've been there too. From a guy's perspective, I've heard of girls who put themselves in dips then wonders why he dropped her and/or not letting the guy lead her but decide what moves they want to go into on their own. How enjoyable is that from a more experienced dancer's perspective -- not saying that all less experienced dancers will do this, but I'm sure every dancer has experienced at least one of these incidents at some point.

Regarding your point regarding the best of the best out on the floor -- I guess that's a matter of perspective. When I was starting and saw the best of the best, I wasn't thinking about intimidation, unless I was nervous of asking them for a dance -- I loved to watch better dancers and still do, and would take that as inspiration and incentive to learn or practice how to be better. To become good enough a dancer that I could hold my own with them when I had the nerve to ask them for a dance. Thinking back, I usually looked to my peers or dancers at my level or slightly better to practice with from classes, workshops and/or in the clubs and from consistent practice, got good enough so that I could have a half-decent dance with the advanced dancers.

So much for a short answer, hope this helps, and I also have an article I wrote previously about "Dancing with Others", how to "fit in" and/or become a better dancer so you can start dancing with the "more advanced" dancers... and for a guy's perspective, you may want to check this article out that I posted sometime ago in our Beginner's Section. Hope this answer is what you're looking for.

And for any other dancers, would love to hear a perspective I may have missed from your own experiences, Rose

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October 22, 2002

Hey Tina, Thanks for sharing your concerns regarding beginners and advanced
dancers. I always find it a pleasure to hear the opinions of people who may
just be starting out or who are at the beginner/intermediate levels. I think it
is important to understand both sides and that's why I wrote in. Now before I
begin I would just like to say that to my knowledge, almost all advanced dancers
in Toronto haven't forgotten where they're from. The reason I make it a point
to say this is because I realize how a situation can sometimes seem totally
opposite to what is really going on.

The point I want to stress on is that of advanced dancers in clubs. Your
statement "We have to remember that dancing is about having fun." You are
absolutely write on that but having fun for one person may not be what someone
else considers having fun. For myself, I work full time (not in dance), teach
twice a week, take a lesson once a week, and practice for competition 3-4 times
a week at least (as a competition comes near, this increases). The only time I can go out and be "free" is once a week for 3-4 hours. Now what do I need within that time of freedom?.... To dance without effort, act foolish if I want, try new things that I've been working on (on my own time) and seeing my friends.

As you can see, me going out once a week to "vent" is golden. But that does not mean that if someone came up to me and asked me to dance that I would question how well they could dance. I actually find myself dancing by myself alot practicing one of the body movements or shines that my familia dropped on me. But I don't go around looking for beginners to dance with. Not that I have anything against that , it's just not what I do in my short period of time out.

Your next comment "I feel it does get quite intimidating when it is only the best of the best doing their thing on the dance floor" puzzles me. There are a few things that I've thought of to maybe give you a more positive outlook on 'the dance floor'.

1. If you are watching people dance majority of the night, then try and arrange
outings with the men and women from your class so that you can practice what
your learning. The basics that an advanced dancer knows is probably no different than a beginner who knows their basics so don't get into the habit of thinking that it's better to practice your basics with someone who is advanced.... It's better to practice with ANYBODY who knows the basics. Especially if that's the level your at. Same thing goes for intermediate...ect.

2. Just because a dancer is advanced, it does not mean that don't learn or are
learning.... I can gaurantee you that the amount of passion you feel in learning
this dance (and your at the beginning stage) will only grow. So just imagine how hungry the more elite dancers are to practice what they are learning.

3. Do not get ahead of yourself trying to learn outside your classroom environment. You should be practicing outside the classroom environment. The
reason why is so that you do not pick up bad habits on the dance floor. And very few people will have the patience to stop and go through a move with you when the congos and cowbell are going crazy.... It's impossible to stop moving sometimes.

4. Beginners should feel no intimidation regarding people looking at them..... follow this rule.... If you believe that you have something that people can learn from you in terms of dance, you'll be looked at.... If you are just beginning chances are people won't care what your doing unless you have kleenex stuck on the bottom of your shoe. the salsa world is a hungry world......everybody learns from the big fish......

Hope this sort of helps you out a little because I know how learning can sometimes be frustrating.... but you need to step up to the plate, salsa is not
a spectator sport. Orville Small www.salsation.ca

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October 22, 2002

Dear Rose, I've been taking Salsa lessons for about 4 months now, but only started to consider my dancing as something more serious recently. I decided to start going out to clubs to practice (about a month ago). It is hard in the beginning as you don't know anybody, however I have to compliment the regular crowd that frequents the clubs. I'm only a beginner and when I go out I don't sit at all, I barely have a chance to get a drink. I still have a hard time with a lot of the moves but slowly i'm gaining confidence and most of the dancers are very willing to help out and give you hints. They are very patient and will even stop and show me the move i'm having trouble with. I believe that the dancers do make themselves available to the beginners. The Salsa community is really great! I am really glad to be a part of it. Anna