February 25, 2004 --

Dear Salsa Forever, thank you for taking time to write in and state your own opinion on this very controversial topic, although this wouldn't be the first time two contests were run almost simultaneously, but not right on top of each other as they are here... To give you a little of my opinions from the past...

On February 23, 2004, I wrote:

And maybe that's not such a bad thing as the new remake of the Dirty Dancing movie, Havana Nights, will be opening this weekend just in time to revitalize our salsa scene and fitting in perfectly with two competitions running side-by-side (sigh). Yes, it's official, the Berlin Competition at it's new location Seven (organized by United Salseros) and a new Toronto Salsa Competition at Acrobat (organized by Jennifer Aucoin) will both be running salsa dance competition preliminaries on Tuesdays this month. As always, I enjoy coming out to watch the contests, but I'm not too happy about having to pre-plan where I'll be as I don't plan to salsa-hop between two clubs. And the fact regulars will have to pick and choose which clubs they want to hit.

But I don't know if this is going to increase attendance at both clubs, or just even out the attendance at the clubs. Although salsa congresses worldwide are still going strong, I've heard generally through the grapevine, that salsa in many cities has not grown at the same crazy pace it had a few years back, but has levelled off.

Also, there seems to be the usual conversations around the fact we have two competitions running at the same time -- it would be interesting to see dancer's feedback on whether this helps promote or detract from our current salsa scene. Of course, if you're planning to compete, at least you can use the same routine and have a chance to win double the prize money; and for those of us who love watching competitions, it may be exciting or boring to see potentially the same routines at both events, depending on who competes and/or if they come up with new routines to try and win as they get more competition experience.

I don't think it's rocket-science to figure out which nights I will cover at each club. So stay tuned for more updates as they get posted, and of course, the usual pics and videotaping where possible. And if you haven't checked them out yet, I've reposted all the winning Toronto Competition Clips from the past 4 years... click here!


And back on January 28, 2004, I also stated:

Now I've always thought and said openly, it never makes sense to run competitions at the same time or back to back as no one will benefit except the competitors who have the potential to place or win at both clubs.

And as info, I have forwarded your email to both organizers in case they would like to give "their reasons why". -- Rose Knows

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February 26, 2004 -- Competition Feedback

What is this silliness about competitions? This is a democracy! There's no union in the Salsa community. People have been competing since the beginning of times. Why should Salsa be any different?

If there's anything that will cause divisions is the stupid and thoughtless comments that come out of these posts. Let the Berlin management do whatever they want with this competitions as they have always done; it is their right...as much it is Acrobat's right to hold their own. If they both do well, great! If one doesn't...welcome to the REAL world. It's nothing special. If people want to hold their own party, social, congress--no one should be penalized about it.

Competitions should unite? Why stop there? Perhaps instructors should unite too? Perhaps bands should merge to, websites...this is silly. The nature of the business is comptetition. Let everyone do their best to do their own. There is no social responsbility on the part of instructors, organizers, or promoters to have to "serve" the salsa scene. Their jobs is just to do the best they can and just be respectful of others. - Richard

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February 26, 2004 -- 2 Salsa Competitions in TO

Hi Rose, I have to agree with "salsa forever" on the fact that the competition at Seven should not be advertized as the 14th annual Berlin competition. Call it the first annual Seven competition or the Atlantis competition.

In 365 days a year, they have to plan 2 competitions in the same weeks? I don't see how this can help either club. They should not have to fight for an audience. I think Jennifer should also organize a competition at the Canada congress so there are couples from all over the world competing. She did a great job organizing the congress.. the only thing missing were live bands.

Anyway, if I have to choose between going to Seven and Acrobat, I'll have to choose Acrobat... it's bigger, nice hard wood floors and closer to old Berlin ;) Those are my 2 cents to add to this discussion... thanks Rose. -- Miguel

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February 27, 2004 -- 2 Salsa Competitions in TO

Hi Rose! First of all, I love your site... it's great to read all the discussions happening. I'd like to say, I think it's great that there are 2 competition happening... I just think it would be better if they happened at different times so it gives the dancers time to create a new routine. It's also better for us to see a diffent show. Unfortunately when competitions compete... one has to win. The one that looses... might not get sponsors next year since they did not get enough people to make it worth it for the club to host another competition. You see? Richard, this is why nobody will benefit from having 2 competitions running at the same time other than the dancers who get the prizes. I don't think they should UNITE, but they should definately plan it better for next year and have one in the spring and one in the fall. -- Ana

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March 2, 2004 -- Response to Ana

You have a good point, Ana. However, let me point out that organizers one or both of the organizers decided they are going to run the competition hand in hand, so they have to take the consequences of those decisions. As far I can remember, Berlin, or whatever you call it now, has always been held around this time. Still, Acrobat is entitled to hold their own competition no matter. I just hoped they had done in it a Friday since Friday appears to be happening. I just hope it stays that way and not another club opens on a Friday night (Red Violion, El Rancho, Plaza, Courthouse, what else?). But democracy is democracy, so everyone has the right to do whatever they want so long as they live up to the results of their decisions. - Richard

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March 2, 2004 -- Toronto Salsa Competitions

Hi All It is difficult to disagree with the sentiment stated in the comments so far: the contest should not be called the 14th Annual Berlin Contest – it is not. Perhaps Jennifer is fair in calling the contest ‘Toronto Salsa Contest’. If anyone has a right to the ‘Berlin’ name it should be her simply because she has organized the Berlin content for the past several years. The timing also has to be questioned. If Seven was going to organize the contest, it should have been in Feb, which is when it is held every year.

Miguel your comment of the choice of the very same week in the year for the contests, of all the weeks, is amusing but ironic. As per the venue, you are right Rose, Acrobat is a probably a more inviting venue with it’s hardwood floors and deco than the concrete block and shared washrooms that Seven offers. On the other hand, with the array of students and assistant instructors that United has, they should not have much trouble finding contestants or patrons.

My business professor reminded us that competition is always good for the consumer. Pepsi vs Coke. Microsoft vs Apple. United Salseros vs Jen. The competition between the contests may indeed result in better deals for latin club goers. Salsa enthusiasts will vote with their feet and wallets. So may the best contest and contestant(s) win. Unless, of course, as Ana fears–the crowd (and dollars) split and there is insufficient support for future competitions. In such a case, everyone loses. - The Wizard of Oz

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March 8, 2004 -- Toronto Salsa Competitions

Seven Lounge doesn't have the great ambiance and wooden floors of a babalu's but it is still a beautiful club with no attitudes and the classes and instructors are some of the best and friendliest in the city. I'll take the classes whenever my shift allows it. Last week I decided to pass by Acrobat at around midnight, as I also like to go there the occassional Friday (as well as Lula Lounge and Red Violin), but they were already closed. I then went by Seven, where there were about 20 people leaving (must have day jobs) and got a good 1/2hr dancing before going home. There were probably about 20-30 still there but I was surprised there weren't more. Oh well, at least I got my dancing in. Why does Acrobat close so early? This is not the first time. I've gone by there on a few occassions, also around midnight only to find that the club was already closed. What's up this this? On that note see you at Seven this week. salsa hobo

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March 8, 2004 -- Toronto Competitions

Hi: this is an ex-Torontonian that does not get into the city or dancing much these days. I just started reading some of this articles and found it interesting, funny, disturbing and a whole lot of other feelings.

Jennifer organized the Berlin competition for several years, and did a great job I might add, but there were people before her that did the same thing, and also did a great job. Can they equally say that it's their competition?

Organizers get paid to organize by owners of a club. The owners have the ownership and can call the competition whatever they want and hold it whenever they want. The organization that owned Berlin's and who own Seven are the same. This is why they can use the same name (it's theirs to use!). This may sound as a shot at Jennifer but it's not meant to be, more of "things that make you go hmmm".

If the competition at Berlin was organized at the same time of year, every year, wouldn't Jennifer and the rest of the Salsa community know this? Why then organize a competition at a specific time of the year when you already know that one is taking place? The point is that Seven, Berlins, Atlantis or whatever name they may go by, can call it whatever they want.

Most of you so-called Salseros haven't even been around for more than a few years let alone 7-15 years I have to respect the fact that all of you have your opinion on which club you prefer but to voice an opinion on who's competition it is or what name it should be called is a little ridiculous. You have no clue. It's ridiculous that all of you, who are no more than babies, no disrespect, in the salsa scene appear to be having not only a stake but are also telling owners and organizers what something should or should not be called.

ROSE, MAYBE YOU'LL FIND THAT YOU'LL GET A LOT OF HITS ON YOUR WEBSITE BY POSTING SOME OF THESE COMMENTS BUT I DON'T THINK THAT YOU'LL BE DOING A FAVOUR TO THE SALSA SCENE. IN FACT I BELIEVE THAT IT MAY CAUSE A RIFT. Richard, at least you make things black and white. -- Anonymous

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March 8, 2004 -- Toronto Salsa Competitions

Well Anonymous, I normally don't want to get caught up in these discussions, but your CAPITALIZED parting shot, may not necessarily deserve a rebuttal; but for dancers who don't know the whole picture -- maybe this will shed some light on issues only discussed in the privacy of the salsa clubs when a merengue or bachata is playing.

When I started posting these letters, it was because people were asking for advice about salsa dancing in Toronto; and I thought, well, like myself, I had all the same questions once, so why not post them so we could all benefit.

Little did I know that some questions would turn into debates on the site and individuals voicing opinions in an open forum. And in case you didn't realize, with some of your comments about the history of the berlin competition, you also "educated" some dancers who did not put enough thought or don't have the background to make proper judgements around this issue.

And regarding a rift to the salsa scene, since you don't live here, you may not realize that dancers have been talking about this very subject for weeks before it was ever posted; and some of the comments or opinions, including the ones in this discussion even surprised me, including other seasoned dancers -- Rose