November 20, 2003 -- Salsa Hog - You are Right...

You are right! But, but...who are you though? And by the way, since we are back to the cave days, can you please make sure that you also:

a) Pay for my drinks
b) Pay for my cover
c) Pay for cab ride home
e) fight other men if they ask me to dance
d) come in a white suit with greased hair

and, in return,I promise to be...

a) swept away by your manliness that we can go home together and have wild sex
b) be so impressed with your level of dancing that I'll act like tourist that has never seen Salsa ever before
c) clean the club and put the chairs up after the club night
d) throw a drama if you dance with another woman that night and make every man's dream come true with two women wrestling on the dance floor.

Yipee! I like your post. I have never laughed so hard in my entire life. Thank you for posting it, Rose. -- V

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November 20, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance

Dear Salsa Hog,

I do not want to insult you or disrespect you in any way, but your post shows a high level of insecure ness, machismo and egocentrism. I tell you what; it’s not a good idea of refuse to dance with a lady that has just asked you. The word would get around in a heartbeat and it will get harder and harder to find a dance partner.

Question: How long have you been dancing? Don't you remember when you were not that good (at the beginning stage) and some of the good dancers would refuse to dance w/ you? I have never refused to dance with a lady. Actually I like to dance with beginners to warm up and also to help them. The only way a beginner improves is by dancing with good dancers. They will remember who was snobby and who was nice. By you saying "Some women can't seem to take a hint!” leads me to believe that you are not a very good dancer. A good dancer appreciates the efforts that others put into learning and know how hard it can be. If you are a good dancer, shame on you. -- Betto

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November 20, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance.(Answer to Salsahog)

OK everybody, put down those guns!

Although the general public's first reaction would be to figuratively (or maybe literally) shoot down salsahog as the putrid, neanderthalian, testosterone-overdosed, dim-witted, knuckle-dragging, me-tarzan-you-janeing, erection-obsessed, rabid, flea-infested rodent that he seems to be let us take a moment to realize that he is probably just a maladjusted, neglected, insecure, low-confidence ignoramus who probably does not know any better. Pitty him. Hey, for all we know, he is just getting a kick out of watching all normal human beings in this forum scurry about in righteous anger.

But, on the other hand, Salsahog, if you truly, from the bottom of your heart (or your pants) believe exactly what you wrote, let me explain a few things to you. You insulted a lot of people with your post. Really. In salsa, in fact, in all dances, it is the role of the leader to make the follower look good. This is done through communicating his movement, his rhythm, his continuity, his styling, his interpretation through non-vocal gestures. Men lead not because they are better, bigger, smarter or stronger. They lead, because frankly, women look better following than men do. An because a convention had to be established for dancers from everywhere to be able to dance together.

Salsahog, we real men like to be asked by women to dance. We find it flattering. It is an honour not to be refused. If we happen to be good at dancing we profit and learn fron each and every dancing experience. We make friends that way. We share who we are and what we have learned with these women. We become better dancers and human beings. Our manhood is not threatened by the fact that they had the fortitude to take the initiative and ask us to dance. We are not afraid to be led. We know that if she looks good and happy, WE look good and happy. Who would not want to be like that?

Salsahog, stop worring about the size of your manhood or the depth of your voice or the hairyness of your body. Come on over. Learn to dance. Salsa if you like. Or Merengue. You at least did a smart thing by not stating your real name. Therefore not all is lost. You can become a happier person.

Unless of course your real name is Salsahog. (What, your mother did not like you?) -- Francisco

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November 21, 2003 -- women asking men to dance

Dear Salsa Hog,

I sympathize with the terrible predicament in which you find yourself. How awful to be approached, night after night, by women who are clearly unworthy of sharing floor space with you for 4 minutes. I may have been guilty of this myself, as I sometimes break away from my "subservient" role as follower when a song I like is playing and no man has asked me to dance.

I would certainly never want you to feel like less of a man than you already are, so I suggest you help all us Toronto gals by:

1) telling us who you are

2) sending your photo in to ToSalsa

3) clearly identifying yourself as "Salsa Hog" whenever you go out to a club.

This will enable myself and other brazen Toronto females to quickly recognize you, so that we may not make the horrible mistake of approaching you for a dance, thus diminishing your manhood. And if you approached us, we would know ahead of time that in order to make the dance enjoyable for you we must assume a subservient follower's position, and throw right out the window any silly, new-fangled ideas we have acquired about a dance partnership having some sense of equality.

Salsa Hog, I feel just awful about your situation, even more so because I may have in some way contributed to it. I really want to help, and I'm sure many Toronto female salsa dancers feel as I do, so please, please, tell me who are you are, and I swear I will never approach you again. -- Rita Hickey

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November 21, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance salsa - yes!

As a male (leader in salsa hog's argot) I am absolutely thrilled when a woman (follower) asks me to dance (share) a salsa tune with her It is so refreshing to enjoy the company of someone who is comfortable enough in herself and in my ability to continue the experience.

Salsahog should keep his snout shut and crawl back to the sty from which he came. Do not give the rest of us normal salseros a bad name. It is hard enough for us guys without salsahog polluting the air even more. -- omosaze

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November 21, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance

I am all IN FAVOUR of women asking men to dance!!!

I especially want some woman who is perhaps not the youngest or the best dressed or the most talented in the room to come over and ask me.

I will look them up and down veeeery slowly. Then I will look them right in the eye and with a curled lip I will return the compliment I have received so many times (but only in salsa clubs for some reason...)

"I don't THINK soooo."

As they say, turnabout is fair play.

OK, kidding aside, in response to a previous comment, I have no problem about being asked. But really, in all fairness, the men should have the right to say no as well. I wasn't impressed with that "word would get around" remark at all.

Merengue Mouse :-)

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November 23, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance

Dear Merengue Mouse:

Like you stated, turnabout is fair play. But please explain to this forum how your petty revenge is going to bring fairness to the Salsa scene.

I am sure you are going to feel great for about 30 seconds when you reject someone's offer to share a dance. You are going to do your best Jim Carrey imitation and say:"I don't THINK soooo."

And then, what?

Look, everyone, men and women, have the right to refuse a dance. But there is always a polite way to do it. How about: "Thanks for asking, but right now I can't. I would be happy to dance the next song with you if that is OK..."
or: "Thank you for the offer, but presently I promised a dance to so and so over here. If you don't mind maybe we can have the next salsa..."

I understand how bad one can feel being rejected because of looks, age, clothing, race or level of dancing. But believe me, you are going to feel a lot better if you take the moral high ground. If somebody slighted you in the past, ignore them. They won't be around for long. Their whole loser attitude is self-destructive. Do not join then in their inanity.

Sometimes unfair things happen to people all the time. You feel you deserve better?; treat others better. Like Voltaire once said "À la fin de la journée tout le monde reçoit ce qu-il mérite"(At the end of the day everyone gets what they deserve) -- Francisco

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December 5, 2003 --

Well, is Salsa Hog-Dog still around after all these comments ? Or did he went back to his cavern, to dance salsa with bears ? After all, a bear with a mini skirt, it's cute and should work fine for him ! -- Krazy Salsero

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December 11, 2003 -- Less of a man

In response to Salsa Hog. Honestly, I never ask men I don't know how to dance. Maybe it is that I am Latin American... or perhaps that I lead better than most men, or so I have been told by many women. Yes honey... you are less of a man. Do I want to lead? You bet and I lead men all the time... ;) C.

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December 11, 2003 -- response to Francisco

Hi Francisco, I appreciate the good meaning of it all, but I am not sure to whom do women look better following. I would say that a good female leader looks really good too. It is true, perhaps, that men might not look good as followers. I guess it depends who is looking. As a female who mostly leads, it seems other women like to look at men being led by a woman. q.

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December 13, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance

Now that all the fat women and wussy men have provided their feedback, I would like to close off this topic with 6 words your mothers should have taught you long ago: LADIES don't ask men to dance! -- Salsa Hog

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December 15, 2003 -- Women asking men to dance (Answer to q.)

When it comes to desciding who looks better leading or following you are right in asserting that it depends on who is looking. There are men and women out there who can switch leads with wonderful ease. As long as both partners are in agreement as to who should lead and who should follow anything goes.

The lead/follow convention applies to dancing only in the context of our present cultural perspective. It may be true that this may have been different before or that it may change again in the future. I mean, look how long it took in Canada for women to be recognized as persons. Yet some ancient cultures were dominated by women. These mores and perceptions do change, but ever so slowly.

It just happens to be that right now at the beginning of the 21st century, men lead women when dancing salsa. Men are considered the frame and women the picture. That may change. The way men percieve women today and the way women percieve themselves will almost certainly change also. What is considered beautiful today may be looked upon differently in a hundred years. (A quick glance at the history of art will corroborate this point)

As for your comment about women liking to see a man led by a woman, well it takes all kinds. I know women who think that two men dancing together is a waste, others think it is a beautiful thing. As long as you are happy with the role you take, there will always be a place for you on the dance floor. Look at Salsahog, he chose the role of neandertal poster-boy and he does quite well at it. -- Francisco

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February 20, 2004 -- Women asking men to dance

Well, the SalsaHog is a very impressive male!!! Must be, since he has such a low opinion of women! I bet all women are crazy about him!!! I bet he's great in bed, too!!! (sorry to bring that up, but such egotistic and self-sufficient creatures need and ask to be reminded of just what their place is!!!)

Let me tell you that here, in Romania, there are a lot of macho men that have very low opinions on women. BUT I HAVE NEVER HEARD ANY OF THEM THINKING "WOMEN SHOULDN'T ASK MEN TO DANCE"!!! They actually feel good and very flattered when being invited to dance by women. It inflates their overly-developped egos even more!

As a woman, I like to invite men to dance with me! I also love to lead (and many girls tell me I am a very good leader!). And I think that female leaders look great! I enjoy watching two guys dance together or two girls, or a woman leading a man! It's fun and it feels great! Besides, it teaches you what the other party feels! So you get to learn and correct you own mistakes!

E.G. as a woman, sometimes you might feel the urge to lead, even though you are a follower (you think the guy is not leading properly...). But when you lead a man and he doesn't listen to your signals (due to the fact that he is VERY USED to leading) you understand how annoying it might be! Or, if you are a man and let a woman lead you, you understand what poor signalling means - when you confuse the woman or you don't spin her properly... so you might want to correct that, right?!

Well, to make a long story short, have fun salsa-dancing and let's forget about all the egotistic persons out there (of both genders!)!!! Raluca from Romania

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February 20, 2004 -- Women asking men to dance

YOU KNow something I thing that People are putting too much In to this whom is leading badly and whom Is not following or getting the wrong signal. Everyone is taking the fun from it people get uptight and do not enjoy the dancing. Just deal with it there will be good leader and poor leaders, good follower and poor followers, remember when you started? Gatto

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October 15, 2004 -- Women asking men to dance

I do not believe that asking a man to dance is a bad thing. I myself grew up latin and am used to the man asking the woman to dance (I am a woman!). This does not neccessarily mean that it's always the right thing to do though!

I disagree with all the men out there who think that a woman is degrading herself if she asks him to dance. PLEASE!!!!! Give me a break! There are so many women who go to clubs alone with their girlfriends to have a good time.

Many men who are at the clubs do not take the initiative to ask them to dance. So what do you expect us to do, wait until you come to ask us to dance...no! Sometimes, there is a good salsa playing and you JUST WANT TO DANCE, but have no one to dance with. What option does one have, but to ask a man to dance!

I agree with what Vanessa said. If you want to go back to the cave days, pay for all our drinks, pay for our cab ride home, pay for ALL the dinners, movies, gifts, while you're at it, getting us a fur coat, a Gucci suit and of course a 7day cruise in Grecce!

Enjoy yourself when you go out. Who cares who asks who to dance. You're there to dance (except for those who go to clubs for something else!). A man should feel good when a woman asks him to dance. Maybe she thinks you're a good dancer! Don't think a woman wants to marry you if she asks you to dance. Times have changed, let's put our machismo aside! Salsa Lover :)