May
18,
2004
Who
is your favourite dancer/instructor in Toronto...Why?
We will post any constructive feedback
from our readers.
|
|
|
The Feedback.... April
22, 2003 - favourite dancer/instructor discussion April 22, 2003 - My Favourite Dancers Angus and Caryl. I'm not sure if they teach, but watching these two dance is a like reading a book with a complicated plot line. I also like the dainty looking (Chinese or Japanese?) tiny lady that can lead better than me (she's on my wish list once I am able to do some cool tricks and moves. I like the way Jay Jay and Tina teach from City Corps. The casino thing is really fun. -- Arturo April 22, 2003 - Adam and Best Salsa teacher Adam,
You seem to group all Cuban dance supporters as insecure. I think you already made up your mind about who is the best dance instructor. You implied Vladimir and Ana had something to do with Mana closing. You identified yourself with Dance to Live. Is this some sinister way to promote the teachers you like and badmouth the ones you don't? I think this debate will be nastier than the other debates and I see no point in it. You are doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. And Threadkiller. Good comeback. You don't know much about Salsa music and dance. So, you just come up with just basically "shut up". You are a magician with words. You remind of a bully on the playground who is not so good with words and gets angry because he thinks someone is making of him. -- Chincub April 22, 2003 - Best salsa teachers A good salsa teacher should be : 1) A
good working knowledge of Spanish. 99% of salsa songs 2)Extensive travels or knowledge of different styles of salsa. Not only New York, Los Angeles and salsa congresses. But also Cuba, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Puerto Rico. 3)Knowledge of dances related to salsa. Not only Ballroom, Jazz or modern dance. But son, casino, mambo, Cuban rumba, Cuban cha cha cha, Afro-Cuban Columbia, traditional Colombian cuimbia, traditional merengue and bachata. They should learn not only the commericialed versions of these dances, but how they are danced in their own native countries. 4) A
deep knowledge about the history of Salsa. Must know 5) a knowledge of basic precussion. You dance to the precussion. You must know the in and outs of the clave and be able to explain it. 6)A person who can point out your mistakes in clear and simple terms, and not just say "feel the music". 7) Take
out time to learn other styles of Salsa, not just 8) Advertise and teach what they know. Most instructors here should not be teaching Casino. They don't know enough about casino. 9) Small classes and pay attention to every student in the class. Persuade advanced students to learn more about the music, and travel -- Mechy April 23, 2003 - My favorite dance teacher HI, I think There are a lot of great instructors in Toronto I also being an instructor I have taken lessons from a lot of instructors from all over, and each one of them has something to offer. But there are 2 in Toronto that I think they are amazing one is Teddy from united salseros and the other is Stephanie from mambo tribe. I love the way teddy breaks down all the patterns and is able to explain all movements happening from start to finish; also his approach in breaking down sequences is amazing. As for Stephanie she has an amazing sense of rhythm she is one of the few girls whom dances with music and is able to adapt it with beginners and advanced dancers. Having taken lessons from her she was able to explain and make me dance on 2 and made me understand it not just dance it. I think there are a lot of good teachers out there but these two stand out for me -- Mambo Italiano April 23, 2003 - Characteristics of a good dance school Adam, There is a great deal of similarities in approach between Soles Dance Studio and Dance to Live. Hence, ultimately the school you choose will depend on chemistry; between the instructors and you, between the students in the class and you. Both schools use a structured approach and are able to progress students from one level to the next. It is fairly important that you can develop with a group of students and progress through having a solid foundation, through to steps, techniques and interpretation of music. If you have a deep passion for dance and is inspired by the power of the human body in movement and motion. I urge you augment your Salsa lessons with training in Pilates, Modern Dance, Hip Hop, Ballet and/or International Ballroom. Any one of these disciplines will help you develop your core muscles, locate yourself in space and elevate you to the forefront of training in Salsa. Beware of Schools that focuses on steps and not techniques. It is techniques that will differentiate your dancing from the ordinary to the exceptional. However, if general street or club dancing is all you ever wish to accomplish, an accumulation of steps is adequate for the vast majority of dancers. Each and every person will develop or adopt his/her own style of dance. It is deeply rooted in his/her culture and associations with friends and family. Dance is an art; knowledge of its history or developmental background may add something nebulous to its enjoyment. This knowledge will add very little to the training and development of your muscular power and memory. Mastery of this art is achieved when techniques are no longer a barrier. -- Richard April 23, 2003 - best salsa teachers I take lessons at Soles with Nicole and at City Dance with Estelle and JJ doing Casino Ruedea style. I've danced with girls from Dance to live with Paula, and they can dance,dance. I also hear that United is excellent. Those I my opinion are the best in TO. regards Edwardo April 23, 2003 - Chincub I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't recall ever having had said anything mean to you as this my first ever post in TOSalsa (now my second). I apologize if you thought I implied that all Cuban/Dancers are insecure. That's not what I meant at all, and I thought most of the people that replied got the idea of the question I'm asking. Anyway, as I've mentioned, I don't want this to be a negative thread, and I hope you respect that. -- Adam April 23, 2003 - Best Salsa Instructors Before I add my piece here and to contextualize my response, let me say that I only dance salsa socially. I have many years of dance training in another dance form. The key to finding a good dance instructor is determining what you want to get out of dancing. That is to say, do you want to dance socially, compete or perform. I don't think that all of Mechy's requirements of a teacher are indispensable in order to have an effective dance teacher. For example, I don't think that a dance teacher who doesn't speak Spanish is any less effective. However, what is more important is long-term exposure to salsa - where the dancing becomes like breathing, ie. a natural expression. A teacher who has been exposed to the music and dance for a long time and who has been teaching for a long time will have more experience in properly and effectively conveying ideas and concepts than someone who is new to the dance. I think that a teacher who stresses the basics is also very important. It's great if someone has taught you how to do a whole bunch of fancy spins, but if you can't get through the basics without counting, then all the spin/dip combinations in the world are useless. This also takes away from the fun of dancing. I've often noted at clubs people wo are attempting to execute a whole bunch of "fancy moves", yet they would be hard pressed to dance the basics without counting. Personally, I learned how to dance just by going to the clubs and watching. As a woman, it was easier for me to learn this way since all I had to do was follow when asked to dance. It also helped that I had grown up with salsa music at home. I don't perform or compete, so I don't need anything fancy to wow the audiences. I know enough so that men who are pretty good dancers don't get frustrated or bored when they dance with me. I do however warn the guys that I am not into a whole buch of spins, and they usually respect that. I also know enough to guarantee me endless nights of dancing at the clubs. The point of my personal anecdote is to highlight the importance of just going out and having fun with the music and immersing yourself in the salsa environment - that is of course if you just want to dance socially. The best place for me in the city to do this is at El Rancho. Many of the people there dance for fun and there is an honest feeling about their dancing. The evolution of salsa in Toronto is like a double edged sword - on the one hand it's great that so many people are interested in salsa and are turning it into a performing art. However, for the folks that just want to learn to dance socially, it has been made to be so complicated. In the end a lot of the nuances that makes a dance form so particular and special is lost - it becomes a mechanical execution of steps, it's like painting by connecting the dots... My final advice look for a teacher who stresses the basics, has many years of experience, and an abundance of patience. April 23, 2003 - Toronto instructors/dancers - repsonse to Mechy Hi Mechy, You do the Cuban teachers and dancers in Toronto a dis-service by not mentioning who they are i.e. where people could go if they are interested in seeing or learning Casino and related Cuban and Caribbean dances. That was the point of this discussion topic (who the good teachers and dancers are in Toronto). I think they deserve mention so .. The only teachers in Toronto that I am aware of that fulfil the qualifications that you listed as necessary (in your opinion) are Vladimir Aranda and Ana Machado. Vladimir Aranda I had taken a few Casino lessons from (I stopped for mostly practical reasons, not because I didn't like casino). Unfortunately, he is not listed as an instructor on ToSalsa or SalsaSpot so I'm not sure how anyone interested could get details (except by word of mouth) about the courses and workshops he offers, how they are run etc. Do you know ? Perhaps you could tell us and/or encourage Vladimir to make his presence more visible via web listings somewhere. Ana Machado I have unfortunately not had the privelege of meeting but judging from her web site (accessible through the "instructors" links on this site) she is emminently qualified as per your criteria as well and, as a former lead dancer with Tropicana MUST (by definition) be a superior dancer. Her listing only mentions classes in "salsa on 1" but perhaps this is out of date ? I believe United Salseros has scheduled some Afro-Cuban styling workshops with her. Do you know of other teachers in Toronto that you could recommend for those interested in specifically Cuban style dancing ? If so, I'm sure many people would appreciate it if you were to let them know. As far as who the good Cuban dancers are in Toronto (the other part of the discussion topic), I'm afraid I cannot venture an opinion. It's unfortunate that Cuban dancing is almost "hidden" in Toronto to the point that poor DGT (a Cuban lady from another discussion) was in Toronto for 4 months without having been able to locate the Cuban hangouts !!! And it was a non-Cuban repondent (I think - Lou) who finally bothered to steer her in the right direction. No matter how beautiful (or fun) it is, you cannot increase the popularity of Cuban dance here by simply taking shots at other salsa styles and the fine, dedicated people who dance and teach them. It should be obvious to anyone that unless people here can see Casino and related dances done well locally and know where to go for quality, methodical, Cuban dance lessons in Toronto (if they are enthused by what they see) the growth of Cuban style dancing in Toronto will be hampered. Frequent trips to Cuba to learn are out of reach financially or just not practical for most salsa students (most can't go regularly to LA or New York for salsa lesons either). I had suggested previously. in the other discussion group, that the local Toronto Cubans create a performance group to increase the visibility of Cuban dance and music in Toronto. In response, DGT (the Cuban lady) tried to get a Cuban dance group together and, frankly, I was sad that her initiative was met with so little enthusiasm (I think she got only 1 volunteer ?). She at least TRIED to do something CONSTRUCTIVE to promote her culture .... and she, at least, should be proud of this even if her outspoken compatriots did not see fit to back her up in this. -- Gabor April 23, 2003 - Who is your favorite instructor/dancer in Toronto? I was thinking about going to Steps Dance Studio with Jennifer Aucoin.
Can someone tell me what she is like as an instructor and what her
classes are like? They sound great (from what I read) as people get
to learn merengue and bachata ON TOP of learning salsa so I don't
have to pay extra for workshops which teach these various styles.
And as for the person who sang the praises of Paula and Jose at Dance
To Live, thanks for the input. I was planning on going to them for
one of their workshops. And who knows, I might like the workshop so
much that I decide to stick with them. -- Salsera April 23, 2003 - Thank you for all the input By far, the responses have been positive. I have also heard of Vladimir, as well as Ana Machado, but I have clue how they teach. Do they teach any clubs that I can get a sample of their teaching? I would also like to learn Cuban Salsa as it has its own unique and distinct flavour. Is the Miami-Cuban style the same as the one danced in Cuba? Also, I have two left feet. I specifically need instructors that can break down steps for slow learners like me. I had some bad experiences with Cuban instructors in New York, and although I'm quite sure that not all Cuban instructors are alike, I would like to take lessons from someone who you can definitely recommend someone that is extremely knowledgeable of what they are teaching, and, more importantly, capable of teaching it well to slow learners. Of course, punctuality and professionalism is also important for me. I have also heard of this guy Chiko? Does anyone have any info on him? Mambo Italiano, you said have taken classes "all over". Is that in Toronto? I heard they also have good dancers in Montreal and, of course, New York. However, it is VERY EXPENSIVE to travel abroad (cheaper in Cuba...and ooohh...the lovely beaches). Do I have to learn good styling and spinning in New York? Or the instructors you recommend (I've seen them dance but not teach) can cover most of your learning needs without travelling abroad? I just can't learn from a video! So far Dance to Live seems to have been given rave reviews...I will have to check out this place by next month. -- Adam P April 24, 2003 - Characteristics of a good dance school Salsera: Shines routines are good for a warm up before a dance class. While dancing with a partner, be careful about breaking into a long shine routine. You may leave her/him feeling that if you feel so good about dancing with yourself, you might as well continue dancing that way. Shines, as well as other Salsa routines should be choreographed to the instant of music in play. It takes time for a new comer to learn, progress and secure the necessary training to dance effortlessly. See my previous post on Characteristic of a good dance school. Try out at different schools; talk to the students who have been there for a while. Why did they choose that school and why have they continued there? This I believe is the best way of finding out. -- Richard April 24, 2003 - Who's your favourite dancer! Being a good Salsa Instructor and a good Salsa dancer can be totally different. Before going to any instructor you need to establish what you want need and/or want to accomplish. Below I've listed some criteria (there are a lot more) for you to think about. WHAT DO YOU NEED and/or WHAT DOES THE INSTRUCOR OFFER? Mechy has mentioned some great points, but it all depends on your
level and what you want and need to accomplish. Basics and technique
being at the top of the list. I don't necessarily agree with being 90% fluent in Spanish (though it would and does help). But that is more for understanding the music. Any good/great instructor can teach you the basics without speaking Spanish. You are lucky in the sense that Toronto has some great instructors who can more than hold their own on the dance floor. As I've said to many people, Toronto's top instructors do not take a backseat to anyone when it comes to instruction. Toronto is spoiled in that sense. Toronto's top instructors have differents strengths and therefore have different things to offer. The best way is to pick a few instructors and either drop by and see them instruct one of their classes (if they let you) and/or do a drop in class (1 time class) if there are drop-in classes available. If you are to take the advice of a student then you should see how
long that student has been with a school and look at their level.
Do you like how they dance? Preferably you would consider a student
who has already tried classes with various instructors. FOR ARTURO: If I'm not mistaken, the little lady who is a great leader
is my fiancee Michelle. People think that she's Japanese to Canadian
to Spanish. She's actually Filipina. She's one of Toronto's top dancers
and performers (she's going to *^$# me for saying this - oh well,
you only live once). Live, Love Laugh y Salsa, Rene April 25, 2003 - Favorite dance instructor First: Kudos to tosalsa for giving an opportunity for people from all walks of life to passionately discuss dancing. Where else would Chinese, Bulgarians, Hungarians and others have the opportunity to do that? Second: My favorite instructor is the best kept secret of the Toronto Salsa scene: Black Pablo, also known as El Gato Negro. I am not sure whether he is from Cuba or Puerto Rico, maybe Hispaniola, but he has that grace and natural warm style of a Latino dancer, that also informs his teaching. Reminescent of The Stylist, he dances equally well on 1 and on 2, girls part, guys part, whatever. In his charming hispano-english he explains the technique needed for every move, breaking it down into the elements of balance, coordination and style. BTW I think that Reny made an honest mistake. The other participant in this discussion referred to El Gato's partner, lovely and intense Nina. -- Leena April 25, 2003 - response to Adamp Adam, I have taken classes in Montreal which is close ,also in L.A And New York and I find all the instructors here have learned from all these different places at one point or another. Either have taken lessons from there or taken Ideas from there and applied it to there own style. So I find here you will find all you need and like Richard said take lessons from all over and see where you fit in to what suits you... One thing I have to say is that even though people have taken lessons in L.A or N.Y there is nothing better than going there and dance with the people no one here can duplicate the feeling of dancing with someone from there, I don’t know what it is but it is an amazing feeling. The girls can follow so amazing and the guys are so playful and great leaders. Here in Toronto there are a lot of girls who will not follow they do their own thing and while dancing with you they will look somewhere else trying to show off to pick up a guy same for guys too. But In L.A and N.Y they dance one on one like if two people are in love reading each others moves and expressions <WOOOWWW> Amazing feeling try it: -- Mambo Italiano April 25, 2003 - best instructors I've only taken club lessons with unitedsalseros but they are great. better than some schools classes. I hope to take their school's group lessons this summer as their students not only dance great but are always out at the clubs. -- Madali April 26, 2003 - salsa instructors forum - response to Adam Just thought I'd add a comment regarding the excellent guidance
provided in Rene's note. I think there's only one thing missing from
the list and that's something only you can supply i.e. how do YOU
envision yourself dancing salsa ? What I mean by this is that we are
all individuals and have different temperaments, personal circumstances
and aspirations. Apart from technique, a teacher's approach to teaching
reflects his/her own conception of salsa and preferences in terms
of style and, ideally, you will end up in a school where this conception
comes close to your own. April 26, 2003 - Best Dancer/Instructors Forum Gabor, Thanks, once again, for your informative post. Like yourself, I (at least for now) am a lost cause when it comes to styling although I'd be interested to learn both shines and styling (I've been taught body rolls in my aerobics class and when I try them, I look like a complete fool). That said, I would focus on the shines before styling cause as it stands now, I've run up against guys who enjoy doing shine patterns and I'm stuck doing the basic. Judging by your glowing reference of Dance to Live Studio, I will be swinging by for their shines workshop in June for Beginner/Intermediate students. -- Salsera April 27, 2003 - TO Trinidad and Grace in Dear TOsalsa and Adam and Gabor I think Vladimir is the only teacher in Toronto who teaches authentic Cuban style salsa dancing. He is a tough teacher to please, but I have learned more with him than any salsa dance teacher in Toronto. I like how he can exactly pinpoint what I am doing wrong and show and tell what to do in clear and precise terms. I think most people don't mention him because they don't want to seem like they are advertising for him. That's too bad because he isn't out there as much as other teachers. But he is a great teacher. If you want to get in touch with me, I think I have Vladimir's e-mail address. I am in partner search and I am listed as Sung Min. I am a man. April 30, 2003 - Favourite Instructors Dancers ought to ponder and reflect upon their claims before posting them for every one to see. Superlatives such as "only teacher in Toronto" and "authentic" should be avoided as this is something that cannot be readily proven. When such claims cannot be backed up or measured against a recognized standard, it serves to discredit the value of the information provided. What is even worse would be negative posts or defamatory posts. Recently, the court has allowed for damages to be awarded to plaintiffs who have successfully sued for defamation posted on the Internet. Such damage has been considered measurably more sever as the defamation is widely read when it is posted on the Internet. At times, I wonder, how many responses here have been posted by those that have a commercial interest in teaching. And if they did, would they care to identify themselves. -- Richard April 30, 2003 Here's a power pack combo that will give very comprehensive deal.
Many of my friends have taken club, studio and private lessons with
these instructors and dancers (not in particular order): Just with these combo (I suggest privates as some people's group classes are too big and you may not get the attention you need), you can an education in various styles of Salsa, music, musical instruments, technique, teaching tips to mention a few. Most instructors in Toronto are well rounded. Dance to Live and UnitedSalseros are particularly very strong in teaching as I have taken lessons (mostly club) with everyone except Mambo Tribe (but Stephanie's there so you'll be in good hands, and I also like her partner Mark. Anyone who tells you that you can get a complete education with one teacher--believe them at your own peril. - Marten April 30, 2003 -- best instructors discussion, responding to Leena Leena, in the best Salsa Instructors in Toronto discussion forum you mentioned a person named 'El Gato Negro'. Could you please give me his email address so I can arrange lessons? His nickname is 'Black Pablo'. regards, Edwardo, dbaseworking@hotmail.com May 1, 2003 -- Richard, Thank you for the advise; I'm sure it was well-intended, but this is not what the thread is all about. I would like to know more about WHO you think are the great instructors and dancers in Toronto. I can make up my mind from there, and I would respect your decisions nor contradict who you think are the good ones in Toronto are. -- Adam P May 1, 2003 -- Response to Richard Hi Richard, I think most of us understood Sung Min's statement to mean simply .... "As far as I am aware Vladimir is the only teacher in Toronto who regularly teaches dance in accordance with stylistic sensibilities and dance material (steps etc.) found in, and characteristic of, Cuba as a whole or some region (or regions) thereof:". I think he was simply, with good intentions, providing the information that had been requested by other participants in this forum (feedback on Vladimir's teaching and how to get in touch with him) - he's just not as long-winded as I am. I'm sure that the readers of this forum would be interested in knowing of any alternative local teachers of this material ... (not being sarcastic ... I'm both serious and curious). Do you know of any that you could recommend ? I know where you're coming from (I think), and I too would have taken exception to a statement like "Vladimir is the only teacher of authentic salsa in Toronto" (implying that LA, New York or Colombian styles are not "authentic" i.e. not valid and distinct styles). But ... I don't think that's what Sung Min meant, although sentiments similar to this have been expressed in the other forums by some. Folk dancers and musicologists routinely use the phrase "authentic (something)" to informally differentiate material and renditions true to the source material from stylized approaches. For example, the source melodic material used in Copeland's "Appalachian Spring", Vaughn Williams' "Norfolk Rhapsodies" or Kodaly's "Dances of Galanta" is authentic in the sense that the tunes were collected (recorded or notated) in the respective regions. The actual renditions by the composers (arrangements, instrumentation and performance style) are not regionally "authentic" since they bear no resemblance to how these tunes would have been sung or played in the source regions by the local villagers. So, the source material is "authentic" folk but the compositions themselves are not ... but they are still great compositions. Early Music circles use the term "HIP" (Historically Informed Performance) to represent the same concept of trying to stay true to the source (since they have no recordings or living sources available against which to check how "authentic" their renditions of medieval, rennaissance and baroque music really are). In dance, the same distinction applies ... many folk dance ensembles (particularly those modeled on the Moiseyev or Tropicana patterns) use "authentic" source material but present it in modified (stylized) form incorporating style and technique from other (non-"folk") disciplines. Others try to learn to perform the music and dance as close as possible to the practices of the local village or street dancers and musicians i.e. to stay "authentic". Both approaches are valid, of course. Back to salsa ... if a teacher claimed to be teaching me "authentic" LA style it would be easily verifiable. I would expect that, if I went to LA, I would see people dancing in the manner in which I was being taught (with allowances for individual style) and that I could dance with them without feeling that I was doing something entirely different or was "out of place". A non-performance video of people dancing at a characteristic club in LA would also confirm this to a lesser extent. So ... if Vladimir teaches "authentic" Cuban style as Sung Min claims, I would expect that after a suitable number of lessons I could go to Cuba and dance with the locals in a style, and using steps, approximating their own. Or dance with recently arrived Cuban women here. Or recognize the stylistic similarities if I saw a video of people dancing the same dance in Cuba. I think this is what Sung Min is saying. Easily verifiable stuff ... no need to call a lawyer ... :-). Adam, I'm afraid this lengthy note is somewhat off topic and for this I apologize. Just didn't know how else to respond -- Gabor May 1, 2003 -- Response to Salsera Hi Salsera, the shine workshop at the Dance to Live studio in June. I think that it is actually being done by Ivy Cuervo of "On Beat" (as opposed to Paula V.). Ivy (I think) teaches primarily "on 2" but I'm not sure what she plans for the workshop. You may want to check if this is of a concern to you. In any case, good luck with your "shining" -- Gabor May 3, 2003 -- Response To Richard in Best Salsa Teacher Richard, Perhaps your strong European bias has blinded you to the fact that there are people who have names that are not European. My name is Sung Min. I have identified myself as Vladimir's student like you identified yourself as a Soles Casino master. I have no vested interest in if he gets a lot of students or not. I only responded because people in the debate asked for information about him. My comments about "only" and "authentic" are my own. "Only" because I looked long and hard for someone who taught the style of dancing I saw in Cuba. I took many classes with the most popular and famous instructors in Toronto. I have done research and have gotten to know many instructors in the Toronto area. But none of them come close to Cuban style dancing like Vladimir. Maybe there are others who teach Cuban style salsa in Toronto. But I think none are as visible or have been out there as long as Vladimir. "Authentic" can be easily proven by actually going to Cuba and comparing. For example, the Casino you learned in Soles is not Cuban. If you or any of the other casino "masters" from Soles went to Cuba, they would be lost. Please note, I didn't say authentic Salsa dancing. I said authentic Cuban style dancing. Cuban meaning coming from Cuba. Like my friend Mechy said you seem to have a strong European bias. Oh, I forgot you don't care about how anyone dances in any other country, except perhaps a European country where they dance salsa in a courtroom and costumes. By saying this, you are negating the culture where the music comes from. If someone asks you something about salsa music or the history of salsa dancing (areas which you know nothing about), you revert to new age expressions of "spirit", "soul" and "passion". You consider the street aspects of Salsa distasteful. The African elements in salsa dancing uncivilized. You will only be satisified, if people dance salsa in a European courtroom -- Sung Min May 4, 2003 -- Favorite Dancer/Teacher Hello All, I wish to bring attention to a teacher in Toronto that I personally think of as 1) A Great Teacher of Salsa. and 2) A beautiful Dancer. Peter Julien, who currently teaches Salsa on sunday nights at Por Do sol , 1355 St. Clair Ave, Corner of Landsdown and St. Clair. Peter, was the teacher/choreographer for this years Winning Amature Couple at Berlin's Salsa competition. He has a unique method to his teaching that is both fun and innovative. Give yourself a treat and check out his class! -- Veronica May 4, 2003 -- Favourite dancer/instructor in Toronto forum-from a former shinenaphobic (well, almost there...LOL!) I just started classes with Jennifer Aucoin of Steps Dance Studio last Wednesday and boy,has she been a godsend. Before her class, I was a complete shinenaphobic-I would just go into a panic and simply do the basic when my partner would let go of me and do a short shine pattern. But after my first class with her, it's like I made leaps and bounds towards breaking out of my phobia and now, it's almost completely disappeared:) Talk about miracles...LOL! Well, maybe it will totally disappear once I learn MORE shine patterns. Cause right now, my knowledge is rather limited. However, on the upside, my dance partner has commented that I'm very good at shines. Which is surprising cause he's at the advanced level and I find him to be a lot better than me at shines. That plus that fact that I only started bustin' shines this week after Jennifer's class. But this is motivation enough for me to continue learning and improving. Of course, I'm looking to improve not only on my shines, but on my partner dancing and my individual technique as well. For those of you who want to know about Jennifer Aucoin as an instructor, I can personally vouch for the fact that not only she is very effective at breaking down the steps for both the women and the men, and helping us put it together, but she is also very patient with answering questions-especially from someone like myself who ask about a million questions...LOL! And she has also mentioned to us that she will put together a book of all of the moves we learn in her class-much like what Paula does at Dance to Live as Gabor previously mentioned. This will be extremely effective in helping me remember everything I learn and practicing them at the clubs. And I am determined to remember as much as I can this time around. -- Salsera May 4, 2003 -- Richard, Sung Min Can we please, please keep this thread civilized. I would rather hear why Vladimir or whoever Richard feels is a good instructor. You may feel you have to offer a rebuttal to whatever someone else said, but I'm trying to keep negative threads out of this posts. By being negative, you may actually do whoever you are learning with an injustice. So once again, I don't mean to sound crass, but I am genuinely interested why Vladimir is a good teacher, Black Pablo?, and other instructors. I can't afford a lot of lessons, and I want student's inputs not other people's criticisms. Thank you. Adam May 4, 2003 -- Re to Richard Such poetic words and ideas coming from someone that is so disrespecful with other people's likes or beleives. As Lou said you keep jumping from one topic to another using any mean you find in your own ways. Thanks God that now everybody knows you so well, nobody beleives you anymore. Bye. -- DGT May 9, 2003 -- Who is your favorite instructor/dancer in Toronto? Hi All, I'm enjoying reading comments on instructors. I am a relative newbie at salsa and go out 2-4 nights a week for lessons (may as well take the bull by the horns aye?). I have been to drop-in lessons at Alleycatz, Fuel (ex Berlin), Left Bank, Court House, Baba lus and Acceso (an undiscovered gem). In addition I am in Beginner II progressive classes with Jen Aucion, having completed Beg. I. I learn from and enjoy progressive classes A LOT MORE than drop-ins. There are far fewer students in progressive classes vs drop-ins (that I have been to), because you are learning with the same people you progress at roughly the same rate and can try patterns you have tried in previous weeks and you get to know people better (if that matters). But most importantly I like the structure and continuity – what you learn this week, you review the next week and so on. Eventually these are linked in turn patterns – I just have not have this happen to me in night-clubs. I also find that in club drop-ins I am often not learning anything new or sometimes instructors decide to teach a more complex which I probably pick-up (sometimes) but am unlikely to try in a club (which is a good test of learning, right?). Also I find that the skill range at the Beginner drop-in level varies quite considerably. And those experiences are no fun, although all time spent on the dance floor is time well spent, don’t you think? As per instructors I agree with the sentiment that one is attracted to some approaches / styles (and hence instructors) more than others. Having tried a few, I find myself gravitating towards Jen Aucion since I quite like the structured approach she offers. I can see why she has been voted the best Salsa instructor by NOW Toronto for the last 2 years. I also find United Salsero’s at Left Bank quite good (although I sense a certain attitude, anyone else get that feeling?). Kvark (sp?) who has just started teaching at Acceso (Eglinton and Avenue – my hood) on Friday nights for $6 is excellent too. That’s too good a deal and won’t last forever I’m sure. Not many else to rave about, I’m afraid. So that’s my two cents from a beginner and will certainly try out Dance to Live among others too. Thanks all, Wizard May 10, 2003 -- Characteristics of good dance schools Seems the name Richard immediately leads certain individuals to lose their collection as intellects. Take a deep breath, relax, there must be more than one Richard in the world, so resist the temptation to flail away. Salsa is an idea. It is an idea in development and ever changing. Canadians are truly blessed with so many dance styles in our midst. I do sense, from some quarters, a sort of religious fervor, a kind of fundamentalism, when it comes to Salsa dancing styles. This manifestation is interesting; however, it is neither creative nor progressive. Like Wizard, I find that I do not learn a great deal from club drop-in classes. Club drop-ins are a good way to expose the novice to Salsa dancing and to meet new dancers. To really acquire proper techniques, you need to learn from a progressive class. A progressive class offers better structure and continuity. Furthermore, there is a better chance that you can practice with a student member of the same class. I am biased toward classes conducted in the presence of both male and female instructors. You get twice the benefit. The male instructor can better demonstrate what the steps are for the leader. However, you are better off practicing with a good female instructor who feels, follows your leads and is able to express to you what she needs from you as a leader. I am speaking from a male student’s perspective. From a styling perspective, a good female instructor is also in a better position to provide a female student with guidance on great and sizzling moves. Generally, instructors that talk a lot are a definite put off. We learn best by doing, followed by seeing and least from hearing. Instructors that project attitudes and biases against other dances or dance styles are also a put off. They show a lack of understanding that Salsa is just one dance and that Salsa itself is an idea in development. You may have noticed that I have deliberately not mentioned names of instructors or schools that I prefer. Preference for a dance style is deeply rooted in culture, friends or family. The chemistry between you and instructor(s) is for you to discover. What you see here in praise of who and who as instructors may reflect purely individualistic biases. This is the weakness of such a forum for gaining real knowledge about the quality of instructors or dance schools. A discussion centered on good characteristics of dancing instructors or school will produce more fruitful results. -- Richard May 10, 2003 -- Who is your favorite instructor/dancer in Toronto? - Message to Wizard Wizard, You mentioned in your email that you are currently in Jen Aucoin's Beginner 2 class. Well, I'll be damned. WE'RE IN THE SAME CLASS TOGETHER!! I don't know who you are, but in case you're not comfortable disclosing your identity on here, I'll tell you who I am. Without revealing my name, I'll tell you that I'm one of the Asian girls in the class. I know this doesn't tell you much, but I'm the one with the long hair that I keep down, but is in a half ponytail. Maybe this will help you: I was the one that asked about backleading cause I did it by accident when we were doing the cross body leads with the one and a half turn combined with a normal cross body lead at the end. This was the part that Jen explained to us that "women think in the present and men think in the future" meaning that it is the men who must lead and if we're not led, we must pretend we don't know what's going on (which is hard, I must say...LOL!). On a more broader level, I have also done club lessons with United Salseros, but I find that I also learn better under Jennifer than I do with them. Not that they're not good teachers cause they are. I think it's just a personal thing, nothing against them. I guess we just all learn differently and because of our individual learning curves, some instructors are more effective at tapping into our potential than others. Well, that is my two cents. Hope to hear from you. And see you in class:) -- Salsera May 13, 2003 -- Hi, I've taken many classes from many people in the Salsa scene (and since the thread is all about good things, I will not mention the bad things--including some "sleazy" issues I've had with at least well-known male instructors. Anyway, I love these generally positive thread as it gives me a chance to try and be curious about other instructors I haven't had lessons with. These are my favourites through my on and off dance career (I'm a pro Hip-Hop dancer): Stephanie Gurnnon--amazing body movements that is even rare among hip-hop dancers and very down to earth no attitude teaching method. This woman can move to the music like no other (yes, it's a personal preference, but I'll die happy if I have even a quarter of her musicality). In addition, I have also attended her music workshop, and it is the best explanation (for dancers, that is) that you will get when it comes to salsa music, and all the other instruments I have a hard time even pronouncing. Ted Olazo--his breakdown ability and attention to detail is quite phenomenal. I thought I had seen everything he had to offer in a club lesson until I realized after taking a one private group class how much movement knowledge he has, and he was able to expand and even enhance some of the things I have learned from other instructors and dance teachers. More importantly, Ted can clearly demonstrate and make you feel why some methods of movements and following are more efficient than others when it comes to styling and following. His leading is superb, and it reflects on all his assistant instructors' leading and following as well. I have found that Dance to Live and UnitedSalseros (I also love Paula and Jose, by the way) have the best students who lead and follow well and can consistently stay on time even if some are not that musical). Angus Dirnbeck--my favourite! I haven't taken lessons with him so I do not know how he teaches. And definitely on my wish list! He is very funky! He dances with Carole a lot, and they absolutely look awesome. They both have a very hip-hop feel, and I love it! I would like more information where he teaches, but he does not seem to be listed on the internet, and it's very hard to get a chance to dance with him as he is always dancing up a storm! Question: has anyone taken lessons with the following and what's your opinion? Michelle (Rene's girlfriend?) - very elegant! I also need names of some good Cuban dance instructors who can show
me authentic cuban dancing as done in Cuba; there appears to be a
shortage of this in Toronto, as everyone is doing more New York, or
L.A. Style. (I'm not too keen on L.A. style, but before you jump on
me, it's just my opinion, and I may not have seen the best L.A. style
dancers yet, and it's totally o.k. if you like it) May 13, 2003 -- Best Instructor/Dancer A few things (I felt that I had to respond): There have been a lot of write up on Who's the best teacher and dancer as well as to what style is best most suitable.. 1) As I stated before Toronto has an abundance of great instructors. There are also many up and coming instructors. You also don't have to stick to one instructor. You have a lot of options for instructors. Having more than one instructor is one of them. 2) I've noticed that Ana Machado and Cuban Dancing have been mentioned several times in these write-ups. Well, if you want to check out what she is like you can check out a 20 minute AFRO-CUBAN STYLING demo class that she will be holding this Wednesday night at Bar One. The demo class will be held at approx. 9:30pm Last week between 20-30 joined Ana during her demonstration. Also, while you are there you can check out the Bar One Competition Finals (Pawel/Dora, Yeung/Alicia, Frank/Ana, Orville/Ana and Bong/Irina). 3) Style - In my opinion style is great if you already
have a strong foundation. However, what good is adding style, be it
Cuban, NewYorikan, Street/Funky, etc... if you don't have the basics.
4) CLUB CLASSES -There have been 1 or 2 comments regarding UnitedSalseros' Club Classes. Sometimes people mention to us that our Club classes are better than some people's studio lessons. What makes them better? Is it because you learn new choreography? We always promote our club classes as practice classes. We teach
choreography with a bit of technicality for both the beginner to advance
students. Live, Love, Laugh y Salsa May 14, 2003 -- Who is your favourite dancer/instructor in Toronto...Why? There's been a lot of good information on this forum for people like me who have been learning salsa for 6 months or so. Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions. One question, though: if I were to step outside the realm of my current dance classes to see what I can learn from another instructor, would it be better to take a break from my current class or to take classes in two (or three) places concurrently? Has anyone done this, and do they find it hinders their learning at all? -- Dancing Dad May 15, 2003 -- Best Instructor/Dancer About "real cuban" dance teachers... I know of 2 teachers from Cuba: Sarita Leyva - From Holguin, Cuba Ana Machado - From Havana, Cuba Between the 2, Sarita has more the street dancer style, incredible energy and pizazz. Ana was a Tropicana dancer and is more polished. Ana teaches many places, this month Saturday's at Lula. Sarita has taught many places, including the Spanish Center. Both have been involved in Cuban traditional presentations at Harbourfront. If you saw the Yerba Buena concert at Harbourfront last summer, the lady that singer Xiomara Lougart pulled out of the crowd to dance on stage, was Sarita... they were friends in school. I found both Sarita and Ana have to be persuaded to teach cuban casino style! Their years in Toronto have taught them that people *really* (usually) want "Toronto style". They might take some cuban style on spec... then feel cheated when they find out it's not what people dance at the discos. But if YOU know what YOU want, and it's casino... that's where you can get it. Worth mentioning too that Sarita's prices for private lessons are *very reasonable* -- artie May 15, 2003 -- who is your favorite dancer/instructor in Toronto This is for Sung Min, you mentionned that you may have a way of contacting Vladimir Arranda, I would very much like to have this contact if he is indeed still teaching. Thanking you in advance, Paloma Rumbera July 14, 2003 -- Instructors/dancers forum - question for Adam P Hi Adam. Your stated purpose for initiating this forum was to gather information so you could decide on a teacher, or teachers, to try out. Just out of curiosity ... have you tried any teachers based on the recommendations in this forum yet ? Would you care to provide any feedback re. your experiences and how they relate to the various contributions to the forum ? Gabor. August 11, 2003 -- Regarding best dance instructors in Toronto, I realize everyone is trying to be positive. But I will also be honest and direct. My comments do not pertain to techniques etc. but to how some of these instructor's conduct themselves. I've gone to some of the clubs and was quite disappointed - yes, I have met some male dance instructors ( well-known ones) who have turned out to be uncouth drunks,sleaze,skirt chasers etc ... Needless to say, it turned me off, while salse is beautiful, fun , exciting I felt that some people can make it classless. -- Anonymous August 16, 2003 -- Answer to Gabor Hi, Gabor! I did try out some instructors in Toronto. I tried some group classes and a couple of privates. There are definitely 4 people in the salsa scene I will NEVER EVER take a lesson with because I found them to very sleazzyy (yes, Adam P is a pen name...and I'm actually a woman!). I rather not mention them, so please don't ask me. Also, while some instructors were quite "nice" some of them were not particularly good at explaining things to me very well, so what good is your knowledge if you don't know how to share it properly? In addition, some were good, but I found them to be very "businessy" that I did not feel comfortable at all...it was all about money, money, money. I tried out 13 instructors in Toronto, Scarborough and Mississauga. Here are the following instructors I highly recommend: Stephanie Gurnon I don't want to play favourites, so I'll just give a general idea on what I found to be quite good and mention little tidbits on what I liked. First, everyone had phenomenal breakdown abilities and their own way of explaining steps. Stephanie is particularly amazing with her body movements and musicaly explanation. More importantly, she was able to relate to me how movement relate the music; it was an eye opener for me and made me appreciate music even more. She also leads (and quite well if I may add) very well. I found Paula's teaching to be highly structured and easy to understand (and strict which I like!). In addition, her group classes are fun and very social. Her attention to technique is as good as anyone in Toronto. Her stage presence is something I definitely would like to see appear in my social dancing. She's also good at teaching dips and tricks for performance stuff. Jennifer seems to have a wealth of knowledge that does not seem to end. I find her very personable and professional to deal with. I particularly like her hand styling movements for some reason and made me also appreciate the intricacies of New York Style styling figures. I was flabbergasted on how well Teddy troubleshoot with me literally every movement problem I had and tell me directly the right mental and physical framework to correct it. He also laid it to me what it really takes to learn well. I found his teaching system sophisticated, unique and straight to the point. Angus, on other other hand, is kind of funky image that I would like to see myself develop eventually. His turn patterns are unique and very complex that I can't even count them! Conclusion, at this stage I cannot possibly imagine how you can go wrong if you learn with even just three of the five instructors I mentioned because they are all so damn good I can't even tell you where to begin. As for group classes, all the studio lessons I've taken with Dance to Live, Unitedsalseros, Mambotribe, and Steps were well organized and structured. It really depends on what you want. If you want pick-up club lessons, UnitedSalseros is my favourite at the Courthouse. I've been to a couple of ballroom-oriented dance schools that teach salsa and they don't even compare to the quality of the pick up lessons at El Rancho, Tequila, Left Bank, Berlin, and the Courthouse. All the dance schools provide the tools you need to become a good dancer but the rest of the effort is up to you I think. For those of you who have taken lessons with some of these instructors or some I did not mention, I think teachers are so unappreciated. I can't even imagine how the quality of my dancing (and my social life for that matter) benefited due to good teachers. Share your knowledge of good teachers! And don't talk bad of others. After all, bad reputation has a way of talking its way in the social discussions in the clubs. -- Adam P September 9, 2003 -- Who is your favourite dancer/instructor in Toronto...Why? My cents and sense into this topic: September 16, 2003 -- favourite instructor I have been taking classes for years. I have taken classes with United Saleros, Peter Djaovic and with Soles. Not just beginner classes. I have finished advanced classes with all of them. So, I was feeling pretty good about myself and abou my dancing abilities. I thought I didn't need anymore dance classes. But then I took a course with Vladimir Aranda. I never have felt like such a dumbass until I took his class. I mean he would never make me feel that way. But I felt so stupid in his class because I couldn't pick up things so quickly. I mean he would teach a very simple step or movement in his class and it would took me forever to learn. He was right that when you learn Casino you have to forget everything you know or thought you knew about Salsa dancing. The simplest things in Casino are hard for most hardcore saleros to learn because you have to unlearn a lot of things you were taught in other classes. In his classes, he teaches you to really LISTEN to the music. I have learned more about salsa music with him than anyone else. He charges less for one hour and a half than most teachers charge for one hour. And he always gives us free classes. -- salsero colombiano October 2, 2003 -- favourite instructor Hi, Rose, great site! I travel from city to city in Canada and occassionally in the U.S., and I have taken lessons with Soles, Dance to Live, United Salseros, and also some drop-in classes at Berlin with Jennifer and Giovannie. I also took some classes with Vladimir way, way back when he used to teach at the Spanish Centre, I believe, as well as with Oscar ? (the one that spins the girls like crazy!). I found Dance to Live, United Salseros and Soles have a VERY comphrehensive program and specialized program and class structures, and I find it is almost virtually impossible to finish them all, so I gather Salsero Colombiano would be a very high level dancer at this stage to have done that. -- Anonymous November 7, 2003 -- To Salsero Colombiano: I'm glad that you are learning something with regards to dancing and music. Everybody teaches Salsa a little different (sometimes a lot different) Students also differ in the sense that some pick up faster than others or must be taught differently, i.e. some may require extreme technicality, some are visual learners and can pick up pretty quickly by watching, some need the music to do a particular pattern while others cannot learn with the music on at first as it's too distracting while learning a basic step. Teachers have different teaching methods while students have differerent learning requirements/needs. As a student, be it a begginer or advanced student, you can learn a little something from most Toronto Instructors. Just keep that in mind. As for going through all the instructors advanced classes. I don't recall ever having any Colombian dancer taking our advance classes. Let alone finishing them as they are always ongoing and changing. Though I would like to add a little more musicality to the classes UnitedSalseros has taken their years of experience over the years and developed their teaching methods and structured syllabus to cater to most students needs. That being said though we cater to the masses we also cater to an individuals needs (re: UnitedSalseros assistant instructors/volunters). Rene January 19, 2004 -- Favourite Dancer/ Instructor I have no stake in promoting this dancer. He doesn't even teach salsa dancing, so by saying this it won't give him more students. I don't even really know him. Just a passing acquintance. I know he is a pretty low key guy. He doesn't like to show off. But word about his abilities is getting. Most salsa teachers like United Salseros and Oscar are learning of his abilities. (Well, at least, I saw them together in photos are Babalu) But I MUST say Juan Carlos, the Cuban guy, the guy behind Red Violin on Friday and Saturday at Orale. Juan Carlos, the guy who kind of looks like Samuel L. Jackson, is the BEST DANCER in Toronto for my money. He doesn't teach except to a bunch of friends in the corner of Orale perhaps for a few minutes. But just by watching him dance I feel I learn a lot. I learn salsa dancing can be playful, spontaneous and ultimately beautiful. Not just hard spins, dips and flips although they are important too. For him, dancing is how well you listen to the music. Not only the differences between salsa songs, but the different parts within the songs themselves. Interpreting a salsa song means much more than dipping at an accent in the song. -- Timba Forever February 11, 2004 -- Favourite Dancer/ Instructor Hey Timba what makes Juan such a good dancer and what is it that you think you are learning? No offense to JC but I love it when people say that I don't really know him and I'm not promoting this person but>>>>>>>>> What is it that "you think" you are learning by watching him? How to socialize perhahps. ha ha ha you kill me. -- Anonymous February 18, 2004 - Response to Anonymous You have a weird sense of humor. But I am glad my e-mail made you laugh. Your feeble attempt at humor when you suggested I only watch him socialize didn't kill me. I watched him dance!! Are you saying you can't learn anything about dancing from watching someone dance? How do you think people copy other peoples's moves? People here should learn to watch other people dance. But unfortunately, people here are lost in their own world of preplanned choreographies, only paying attention to other dancers who spin or flip as hard as them. Good dancers do things so subtle and smooth that look so easy, but are hard to do. I didn't say I wasn't promoting him. I am promoting him. JUAN CARLOS IS BEST SALSA DANCER I HAVE SEEN IN TORONTO. Read carefully my e-mail. I said I had no stake in promoting him. I don't receive money or benefit in anyway if I promote him. He can't benefit either. He doesn't teach professionally. I meant that we are not close friends. I think he knows my face and have talked once or twice. But we are acquaintances. Is there anything wrong with that? The important thing is that I have seen him dance many times. You probably haven't. Just ask any salsa dance teacher here who knows him and he/she will fill you in on how good he is. -- Timba Forever March 1, 2004 -- Favourite Instructor Hi Rose, There are so many instructors in To that unless you take a few lessons with each one, you’ll never know who you get the most out of. I was taking lessons at the Spanish Centre with a few instructors including Oscar from Latin Energy until he started his own group lessons. I find he teaches a lot and you get your money’s worth. At first, I thought he would charge a lot more but the price was the same as the Spanish centre. I’ve also taken lessons with Giovanni from Salsomanos and he’s really good. A bit more pricy but the location is not as convenient for me. The way I found my instructor was at Babaluu. I saw him dancing with his partner Vanesa and I loved the way they danced so I thought for sure they were instructors. They were both very nice. I’ve also taken styling lessons with Vanesa and it made a big difference. I’ve taken styling lessons with Jennifer as well. They’re both great. I guess what I wanted to say is that maybe one instructor is someone’s favorite but it doesn’t mean that they will be the choice for someone else. So you gotta shop around until you find the instructor you like. Don’t stick to one person only since you’ll never know what you might be missing out on. Thanks, Shonalee May 18, 2004 -- Favourite Instructor Hi Shonalee, Not only will students have a different favourite instructor but they may have several favourite instructors as they progress. Maybe taking lessons at the Spanish Centre is a good fit at first but as the student progresses they will demand more. Leading, following, shines, body isolations, choreography, musicality, dancing on "1", dancing on "2", NY Style, LA Style, Afro-Cuban, etc.... The list is endless. Very few Salsa dance schools offers everything and you may find that you will like some better than others at the different stages of your salsa career. Just have fun while doing it and have an open mind in trying out new instructors. RD May 24, 2004 -- Best of Toronto Well, I have not been to Toronto, but there is definitely one name that has not been mentioned that I could see on this forum. He is Orville Small. He is an incredibly gifted instructor, with some of the most creative choreography and movements that I have EVER seen. For those of you who live in Toronto, look him up. He does travel often, but if he is home in Toronto, I definitely recommend him.
Dear
Readers, if you have any questions or feedback, click
here. |