August 19, 2003 -- Re. Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs

I'm not sure if you're a man or a woman, but I had to respond to this as I have managed to find ways of getting into clubs WITHOUT having to pay cover charge. And I didn't need hook-ups either. Unfortunately, I still have to use passes, but these can be printed off the computer in the case of El Rancho (just go to their site). Consider this: If you do go out 2 to 3 times a week, here is a list of the places you can get into for free: Alleycatz (Monday-free all night for both men and women.

Personally, I'm boycotting this place; have my own reasons for this-see my letter dated on August 4th), El Rancho (Friday & Saturday-ladies free before 10:30pm, print the free pass off JUST IN CASE and also if you're male so you can take advantage of this deal. Unfortunately, they will ding you $1 if you use this pass. Sunday-ladies free all night. There is a school you can park on along Bathurst if you want to save on parking, but you should get there early), Courthouse (Friday-ladies free before 10:30pm. This is my hangout and I always make sure I get there early to ensure free entrance. Since you are there early enough, you can usually find free parking), Acrobat, is free for the ladies before 10pm. This is what I've seen on their pass as posted on the internet and informed by word of mouth. As for drinks, you can always bring your own bottled water if you don't want to go to the bar and ask them for "free water". Free parking, as I've stated before, can be found easily enough if you get there early enough. You can get around having to pay coat check in the winter by putting your jacket and bags in a discreet location. However, I don't recommend this for purses or anything that is costly (eg. leather jackets). I hope this is helpful to you. If anyone else has any input, please feel free to share them, especially if they know of other places that are free that I have not listed. -- Salsera

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September 3, 2003 -- Response to Absurd Cover Charges

Hey Rose, its been a while since I have read your site. Hope everyone's summer was fun. I am looking forward to the upcoming Salsa congress here in Toronto. However, this was not the reason for my email. I felt compelled to respond to the topic sent by SALSERA on August 19 2003 RE:absurd cover charges on salsa nights.

My response to Salsera is STAY HOME!!! If you cant afford pay $5-$10 to go out then don't go out. It is hard enough to establish a good salsa night at a club with people like yourself complaining about the cost to get in. Guess what Salsera, these clubs and promoters have to get paid somehow if people like you refuse to pay for anything. Talk to most nightclub owners that have tried holding a salsa night and they will tell you that the salsa crowd will not spend money at the bar and that is why more and more clubs are refusing to hold salsa nights because of your mindset about paying for anything at a club. What is even more absurd is that you feel that you have to send out info on how people can circumvent paying cover at the door. Don't even get me started
about bringing water to a club!

Once more, keep your ##%# home if you cant even afford to pay for water!! Just think if everyone thought like you, we would likely see the end of salsa nights at clubs.

To all that read this, please please discourage mediocrity in the salsa scene! Salsera is just one a few people I have heard complain. Therefore, here is a reality check directed to all reading this: If you are too cheap to pay to go to a club or complain about paying for water at a club, BUT you will spend over a hundred dollars on special dance shoes, spend considerable money to learn to salsa, or go on salsa trips to other cities...ASK YOURSELF WHY YOU ARE COMPLAINING?

Once again, lets discourage mediocrity in the salsa scene!! If you have a friend who complains about paying to go out, please tell them to stay their ##@## home!!!

P.S. Most salsa people work hard and play hard. -- Arthur

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September 10, 2003 -- "Absurd cover charges"

Hi Arthur, My response to Salsera is STAY HOME!!! If you cant afford

I don't think that's very good manners to tell Salsera to stay home. Honestly, I don't think that attitude really suits an ambassador to the salsa scene or anyone who wants salsa to survive and flourish in Toronto. Taking a defensive attitude like that is not going to solve anyone's problems.

Salsa is not just about the owners of the bars making money, or the promoters and teachers making a huge profit. It's nice that some people can make their livings doing what they love (teachers, promoters, bar owners etc) but that doesn't mean that people should be excluded from the scene based on their income.

What about changing incomes.. people who have money today, and not tomorrow? People who don't have jobs right now?? Do you realise YOU could fit into that category at some point?

I agree that people should make good financial choices but I really would hate to bar people from clubs based on how much money they have. That would be elitist.

>they will tell you that the salsa crowd will not spend >money at the
>bar and that is why more and more clubs are

Absolutely: it sucks if your only way to make money is to sell drinks. Perhaps the bars need to be designed on a slightly different business model. Perhaps a new model needs to be invented. Personally, I appreciate not having drunk men falling over me on the dance floor, or having to trip over cigarette buts, dropped drinks, people's bags... and I figure that is a price promoters need to factor into their salsa bar economics.

-- Furqueen

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September 10, 2003 --

Hey Guys.... I just checked out one of the discussion columns on Rose's site... Teddy had asked me to look at it... It's titled "Absurd Cover Charges at Clubs" and some dude by the name of "Arthur" had penned a scathing article -- complete with @!#$%&* etc etc -- rebuking a lady called 'Salsera' telling her not to be cheap & start paying to go into clubs & supporting the DJs & staff.... His intentions are good... But there's no need to be rude & start putting people down... And that's why I've mainly stopped reading these forums (or bothered writing to them). This will be a rare exception.

In general, I find that some folks can get pretty worked up and become quite acidic in their remarks. Reading some of the articles, there are also contributors who feel a need to assert themselves & put down others when they are comparing dancers or especially different forms of salsa (as an eg. ballroom, cuban, etc.)

I think we can be constructive and still try to be polite and civil to each other, without being verbally offensive. No doubt some of these discussions can add to the entertainment value of the site, but let's not forget that there are ordinary people out there with legitimate questions and are just looking for an objective, non-judgmental
response.

I just wanted to let you guys know that I couldn't imagine myself being this "Arthur" who would've written that uncompromising article. Unfortunately there are quite a few Arthur's in the salsa scene, and all distinguished individuals too. ( I've never met another namesake before I started dancing...) So I want to tell everyone that from today on, you can start calling me "Arturo" -- as in "huevos duros" -- if you haven't been doing so already .... =))

Cheers! Arturo, United Salseros
-- El unico Arturo verdadero es el que susurra en su oído en español y baila salsa al mismo tiempo ....

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September 11, 2003 -- Salseros aren't cheap...

Hey Arthur!

I don't think clubs make as much money at the door than they do over-pricing drinks. The big clubs all have different themed nights (Courthouse, Manhattan Fuel, Left Bank) A few Latin Clubs make huge money Thurs - Sun, and some of them are opening on Wednesdays now (El Rancho, Plaza Flamingo, Babaluu). These people are raking it in ok? They can choose to cater to any demographic yet they feel that they have to heavily promote to the salsa crowd.

Without dedicated salseros filling these clubs, there would be no scene at all (it's supply and demand).

Salseros are the demand. We decide where to go, and which DJs, and clubs are successful. I'm not being selfish here; this is reality. The big club owners make big money (if they didn't they would go under because it's hard to survive in Toronto's service industry unless you are hot!).

I am allowed to try to save money. But I spend it to. I eat dinner at Babaluu every once in a while. I buy drinks now and again, but I'm polite about this. I'm happy that there are clubs for me to go to but I don't feel that I have to spend mega bucks to do something I love. And the bar owners obviously don't feel that way either.

They are providing a service but we are allowed to be vocal about it. -- Josh

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September 11, 2003 -- Absurd Cover Charges

Just want give props to Arthur. You go boy!!
Bringing a water bottle to a club. What is the woman thinking. And ,by the way, salsera I only wish that I could pay 100.00 for car insurance. Many of us pay for more than that. Let's not see the end of the Salsa scene as we now it.

Please do not encourage Salsera to scam the salsa clubs. thx Luis

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September 18, 2003 -- Re. Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs-Message for Arthur

Arthur,
First of all, I want to say one thing: IF YOU READ THE ORIGINAL POST CAREFULLY I WAS NOT THE ONE WHO POSTED THE COMPLAINT ABOUT COVER CHARGES (Luis, you might want to read this as well). It was someone else. I was merely giving that person options since their question was how they can get around paying cover. Not once did I say I would never pay cover to go out. Cause I do pay to go to the Left Bank and will be attending the Salsa Congress.

Also, I never said I brought water into the club cause I don't. Besides, what's it any of your *&^$%# business whether I choose to pay cover or not and whether I bring water into the club or not (or anyone else for that matter).

It is not your place to dictate how people choose to live their lives. I realize that we are free to disagree with one another on this forum but who the f*** do you think u r to tell me to keep my ass home. Why don't YOU keep your ass home?! It is insensitive and ignorant people like you (I'm being REALLY polite here) that ruin things for the rest of us. Arthur, you need a reality check: NOT EVERYONE IS ABLE TO AFFORD THESE COVER CHARGES THE WAY YOU ARE ABLE TO. Some of us are students and don't work during the school year. Others may simply not make the kind of income you do and going out may mean the difference between being able to pay rent and feed themselves and/or their families and going hungry and, worse case scenario, getting evicted. Just because people aren't able to afford paying cover does not mean they should be deprived of enjoying themselves during the week .

And, as one person on here said, one day you might find yourself unemployed and not being able to afford these cover charges yourself (you might want to think long and hard about this cause no one is immune to unemployment these days). As for the promoters, if they don't want to risk losing their revenue, they have the choice not to promote getting in free before a certain time. But as long as they do, people have the right to exercise the option not to pay. When all is said and done, I find it really interesting the kind of things people do post on this forum cause I wonder if Arthur would have the balls to say what he just said on here to my face or to anyone else's. If so, he deserves to get his ass kicked. BTW: Furqueen & Arturo (not to be mistaken for Arthur:)), thanks for coming to my defense. People like the two of you have a good spirit. -- Salsera

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September 18, 2003 -- Re. Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs-Message for Luis

Luis, I felt I had to respond to you as well since you also misread what I wrote. I will say this again: I DO NOT BRING A %$&^^* WATER BOTTLE INTO THE CLUB. And if I ever did choose to do this in the future, it would be none of your F%$&%$ business (nor Arthur's for that matter). Second of all, if you read the post very carefully, I AM NOT THE ONE WHO SAID THAT I PAY 100.00 FOR CAR INSURANCE. You have obviously confused me for someone else. Besides, as I said in my previous post, to pay cover or not is a choice and people have the right to go to a club and get in free before a certain hour especially when it is openly promoted. If such an option like this is in the open, those who choose to take advantage of it are hardly scamming the club. -- Salsera

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September 19, 2003 -- Cover Charges

People! Since when do you get to do things you LOVE for free? everything comes at a cost, especially the things you enjoy the most. Just be thankful you're not in NY where one night out can EASILY clean you out of $100 (U.S!. $12 cover is nothing compared to the $20 or $30 I've been charged in the city that never sleeps, NOT including parking, coat check ($3 PER ITEM, so don't even think that checking your coat plus purse will only be $3, nope it will be $6). In the end, just go to the places that are worth it to you, so you will feel like you got a lot out of your money. And definitely take advantage of the free before 10pm offers. I know the clubs are empty that early, but who cares? Sit around, have a drink, enjoy the background music and the company of your friends. An hour wait is worth getting in for free. -- Salsalicious

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September 23, 2003 -- Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs-Message for Arthur

Ah Rose! It looks like I am quickly becoming the American Idol's Simon of the TO Salsa site. I am the person that people love to hate. Even those that know me will realise that I am only playing devil's advocate and I am really a nice guy. However, my alter ego as resident bad guy is rather refreshing and I think I will languish in it for a while...

Here goes...I am back to respond to Salsera's long-winded explanation about the have's and have-nots of the salsa scene. My only response is that maybe you should run for Kofi Annnan's job as UN Secretary General or if a position opens up as the resident 'TOsalsa saint'. I will be the first to nominate for you for beatification. For now, you will have to endure my stinging remarks for which I make no apologies.

Clearly, you have chosen the plight of the 'have nots' and the response from other would-be supporters indicates that you may have a point. There are many individuals in the salsa scene from all walks of life that may not be as blessed as others who can afford the $5 cover charge (Ouch, that is a real hole in my wallet). Those groups you mentioned were students and the unemployed. Heck if you want to add the mentally insane into that mix it would really make for an interesting salsa group. Two words..cheap and crazy.

Now the last time I was at a club, it was usually the students and unemployed who were either spending their OHIP money or EI checks at the bar. I am not saying that all of them spend their money foolishly but heck if you are going to stretch the original point which I made to stay home to include these people, then why am I not allowed to
S T R E T C H my point.

We all have choices. To go out dancing or to not go out dancing? This is a life altering choice isn't it? What I should have clarified in my original email is that if you are going to whine and complain about the cost of going out then stay home!! I know lots of people who are broke or hard up that still go out salsa dancing but I don't hear them complaining or going on about the cost of entertaining themselves.

Take it from me, I wasn't always rolling in my Benz and wearing my bling-bling. I too was part of the multitude who chose to pursue higher learning at a price....but I did not complain about it. I accepted it and still went out salsa dancing.

Then again, it goes to the character of the person. Is the glass half-empty or half-full? If you are the kind of person that finds spiritual enlightenment in always complaining about the cost of things and using one's situation in life as an excuse (I hark back to your use of students and the unemployed) then I would say that you look at the glass as half-empty.

However, if you are like me and like to celebrate life regardless of one's disadvantages then get on board the Arthur Train! I don't discriminate! Whether you are poor and unemployed, you are welcome to salsa dance with me as long as you pay the cover charge at the door (haha).

At the end of the day, its all about the attitude you bring to the salsa scene. Hence, my comment in an earlier email about not bringing mediocrity into the salsa scene.

Don't you realise that salsa dancing is the last real bastion or oasis in a world full of bad news and generally negative vibes from people like you. On any given night, I can get on a dance floor and feel (at least in my own mind) the excitement wash over me that only salsa dancing can provide. Ask anyone who dances and most will tell you that this whole issue about the cost of paying cover at the door and even the cost of drinks at the bar is really a non-issue. For they will travel near and far and pay money just to feel the excitement that salsa dancing provides. To be around a group of like-minded fun individuals whose only real complaints is that there is too much damn Boat cruise merengue being played.

I am compelled to once again reiterate, DON'T SETTLE FOR MEDIOCRITY that Salsera expouses or else we will begin to see the erosion of the momentum in the Toronto area salsa scene!! It has taken us a few years to get here, but with the Canada Salsa Congress around the corner Toronto is on the brink of being a permanent fixture on the salsa dancer's travel map. Say NO to mediocrity!! Say NO to complainers! Say YES to good times on the dance floor!!

A final thought...I wonder if Salsera is going to complain about the cost of paying for Canada Salsa Congress which may be the pinnacle event for the Toronto area salsa scene. The last time I checked there was no discount for students, the unemployed and even complainers. Maybe you should take that up with the organizers. Better yet, try dialing 1-800-2POOR4SALSA.

P.S. The only person who deserves my apologies is my good friend Arthur Yuen who apparently bore the brunt of the criticism for my stinging email. Hopefully, those that gave him crap about it can take a chill pill.

Arthur (aka Simon Cowell)

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September 24, 2003 --

salsera: Uhm, if i was being evicted and unemployed, the last thing i'd be worrying about is salsa. U argue as if salsa is a basic necessity of life, u would'nt be chincub or elconguero posting under a different name would u? (sorry mates, i could'nt resisit :) ) At any rate, $5 for left bank is quite affordable even if u're a student, no? And since u're a girl, babaluu's has a few of nights were ladies are free before 11pm, so what are u complaining about? --pooh

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September 24, 2003 -- Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs-Message for Arthur

Arthur, Again you have demonstrated the fact that you clearly do not know how to read (yet you claim that you have had higher education). There were two points that I clarified that you clearly overlooked. First and foremost, I said I was attending the Canada Salsa Congress (yes, I actually paid money to go to that). Looking forward to it as a matter of fact. Second of all, I also said that I wasn't the person complaining about paying cover (I will pay cover if the place has a good vibe). If you actually took the time to read the original letter posted back in august you will find that the writer of that letter wasn't me (I have always posted under the alias Salsera). Not once have I ever complained on here about paying cover charges. You know, the more you write, the more you prove that you really are a small man pretending he's bigger than he really is (you're probably a coward in real life). I would like to see if you have the guts to address me in person the same way you're addressing me on here. -- Salsera

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September 24, 2003 -- Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs

I'll give my two cents given the fact that I've done promotions for different Salsa events and clubs throughout the years.

1) Salsa Clubs make money on weekends not weekdays. So if anyone thinks that there is all this money that the clubs are making - think again. Not too many people realize how much expense there is to run a nightclub, especially offering Salsa nights.

There are exceptions where some clubs do well most nights that they are open (Ba-ba-luu's from Thursday to Sunday).

2) Most Clubs do not want to start a Salsa night as everyone expects to get in FREE and/or don't spend any money at the Bar. If the club and the promoter don't make any money WHY EVEN OPEN UP?

Let's be realistic here. . .Money makes the world go round.
The club owners definitely have to rethink how they do their business. They may have to change the way they do their promotions, offer drink specials (drink specialties), possibly lower their cover, etc...

But the club patrons should also expect to pay to get in a club, and without bringing their own drinks. It's a bonus if you can get in FREE.

As Salsera mentioned, there are many ways to get discounts or get in FREE. Hell, if I can get in FREE I'll do it. But if I can't then I'll pay to get in. AND I will also buy drinks at the Bar and not bring my own in.

I have received enough complaints for Club owners, and still do today, about how the Salsa dancers don't spend any money at the bar. In the past there have been nights at Tequila Lounge or Bar One, where there have been 100-200 people and the Bar has only made $150-$400 That's not even enough to pay for the Staff (Bartender(s), Coat check person, DJ, Bus Boy, etc.... Let alone the Power and Hydro. I've seen English nights (i.e. R&B) with 30 people that spend more money than 200 Salsa dancers.

Economics people. There is no reason for a club owner or promoter to open their doors for a Salsa night if there isn't any money to be made.
If you still argue this point I would love to see you open a club and see how long you keep it open without any business.

I'm not saying that the Salsa dancers have to get drunk but even buying one drink would help the club, which in turn would help the dancers by having a place they can go dancing.

I once promoted a club, called Embryus, where we had over 500 people on an opening night. The place was packed and extremely hot (even I didn't expect this many people). You'd expect that there would have been lots of $$ made at the Bar. The owners told me that they were shocked in how little the bar made (less than a third on another night with only 150 people).

If everyone refused to pay cover or buy drinks the clubs would close their doors.
Then people would complain about there not being any place to dance.
Where would we go then?
We would have no one to blame but ourselves.

Live, Love, Laugh y Salsa
Rene
www.unitedsalseros.com

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September 24, 2003 -- Cover Charges

This debate seems to have taken the wrong turn. I believe the initial request was to get ideas on how to minimize the amount of money spent on cover charges (ex: getting passes, arriving early, or dressing up like a woman). Somehow, Arthur (who thinks he's imitating a celebrity), took it upon himself to act as a proud capitalist, antagonizing Salsera on top of it all. Then he covers up his insecurities by making superiority claims, marked against the students, the unemployed and those who bring water to the clubs. Very obscene. -- Marsalsa

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September 24, 2003 -- cover charges

Just be thankful you're not in NY? Nice.
Salsalicious, why don't you now tell the skiers to be thankful that they're not in the Swiss Alps. Sorry you got caught in the tourist trap (Copa, no doubt). I hope at least you got to see a good band. Next time, come in the Summer. So much FREE stuff even the food stamp set gets down. Maybe, what you meant to say is that there are more expensive, less exciting activities you could take up. Like skydiving. Anyway, I had pretty good time dancing in TO in April, In spite of a wicked ice storm and the threat of a deadly virus. So I agree with the "be thankful" part. Of course, it helps that with the exchange rate, you guys almost pay us to drink your beer. Hey, why dont you all ('cept Arthur) come down to the social on the 19th? About 10 bones, and Spanish Harlem Orchestra is playing. (Yeah, they play our socials. It's New York). Consider yourselves invited. -e

Salsalicious, dropped a Benjamin, eh? Was it like $40 for getting in, coat check, parking, and you drank $60? If so, we gotta hang.

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September 26, 2003 -- Absurd Cover Charges-Message for Pooh

Pooh, You seem to be mistaking me for that fool, Arthur. It is he who argues that salsa is a basic necessity of life. And no, I'm not Chincub or Elconguero posting under a different name (I don't even know these people). If anything, I am in agreement with you (only you didn't realize it at the time you posted this) that "if i was being evicted and unemployed, the last thing i'd be worrying about is salsa." If you read my post on September 18th, you'll realize that we're on the same page. Another point that I wanted to make clear to you (and to anyone else out there who reads this): I AM NOT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LACK OF FREE NIGHTS OUT THERE NOR AM I COMPLAINING ABOUT HAVING TO PAY COVER. I WAS NEVER COMPLAINING ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE. And yes, Pooh, $5 at Left Bank is definitely affordable even for students as I am there every Sunday. -- Salsera

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October 3, 2003 -- Response To salsera

Hey Salsera who are you calling a fool? It would seem that we have turned a nasty path on this topic. If we are going to start calling each other names than at least do to it my face! How convenient it is for you to call me a name as you hide behind your alias. My name and identity is out there for everyone to see along with my comments. Why don't you look me up next time you go dancing. I am not hard to find in the scene and there are lots of people that know me. When you locate me, try calling me a 'fool' in person. No better yet, keep the trash to yourself.

Clearly, the feedback forum has become something a little more personal for you or a conduit to express your angst. I don't mind that we exchange ideas and make light of certain topics, but come on...is it necessary to go there? At the beginning of my last email, I made it CLEAR that I was going to play devil's advocate to just stir things up. If you are not sure what that means then maybe you should ask a friend before you engage in a forum such as this. I made it quite clear that my comments were meant to be taken lightly. However, you apparently perceived this as a personal jab rather than fodder for the readers. If so, maybe it is time for you to turn your computer off and engage in something a little less stressful. We would not any other unsuspecting individual in this forum to come in your line of fire. In other words, I just would not have gone there.

For the rest of the audience, we will now return to our regularly scheduled banter.....

Arthur (my REAL name)

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October 7, 2003 -- Message for Arthur

Arhur, You have a lot of nerve to insult me on this forum which is seen by many (including friends of mine on the salsa scene) then turn around and make it look like your comments were supposed to be "taken lightly." On top of that, you make it look like I am the one with the problem. Calling me "cheap" and telling me to "keep my ass at home" is hardly making light of things (as you put it). As for calling names, you're not so innocent yourself either. You're the one that called me the TOSalsa saint remember? Not only did you go there, but you proceeded to cut up the unemployed and even the mentally ill calling them respectively "the cheap and crazy". I would strongly suggest that you go back and review your posts just in case you forgot that you made these points and many others as well that were particularly insulting. If anyone has turned a nasty path on this topic, it is you, not me. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way based on some of the subsequent posts I've read in response to your comments. If you're going to insult someone, be prepared to be insulted in return. And do not ever think that I'm afraid to call you a fool to your face if I have to. -- Salsera

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October 31, 2003 -- No complaints paying cover,

Well, salsa dance world of Toronto, I remember the time when there was no complaints about paying cover, club owners not complaining about salsa nights( because most dancers bought drinks), dancers not bickering about this style and that style and all latin dancers partying together as one group who enjoy "LATIN MUSIC", isn't salsa latin music.

It is great to see alot of people dancing now, but that is the only progress I see. There is just to much BS happening, when people should just shut up and dance.

Oh yes, because I go to a computor software convention does not mean I become a IT programmer, get the point.

So lovers of latin music, just dance and have fun.

Signed
Lets dance together, on the 1, 2, 3, or whatever you feel -- Martin

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January 5, 2004-- Absurd cover charges at salsa clubs

Just how do you expect clubs to stay in bussiness? There have been at least 3 clubs, nice ones, that have had to close their doors because they couldn't afford to stay
open. I don't think it's realistic to have clubs operate a puplic dance without cost. You expect decent music, a decent floor, good attendance, decent service, a place to store coats and shoes that is secure. $10 is a bargain for an evening out. On top of this, so many bring a bottle of water and keep refilling it! If you like salsa so much, and want places to go, then support them. If you're tring to keep it cheap, then on Saturday 4-6, there is a church 1 block west of Spadina Ave on Bloor ST W. South Side. $2 flat rate to participate. The website if you're interested is www.coyotevirtual.com Otherwise...well....enjoy! Jason

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January 27, 2004 -- Absurd Cover Charges

Hey Upset2003, Click on http://www.unitedsalseros.com/ and you will be able to get in for FREE at SEVEN LOUNGE. If you want to do a Salsa lesson it's only $5.00 Left Bank - $5.00 Cover which includes a salsa lesson - various levels.... How cheap is that? -- Anon

May 3, 2004 -- Absurd Cover Charges at Clubs

Just reading all the words on "absurd charges at clubs" going back & forth. I produce latin dacne parties, and we often come out in the red, partly because people don't buy any food or drinks!!!!

Dancers, PLEASE bear in mind that there is an incredibly high overhead at most of those clubs, not to mention staffing the place for events. Any idea how much we have to pay for a DJ? Especially when he/she has a decent reputation? Then there's also electricity, the printing of flyers & other PR, etc. It ain't cheap! The only reason I continue to produce these parties, even when I'm ending up in the red, is because I love giving people te opportunity to dance and have a good time. -- Cocodrilo

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