Updated on October 10, 2001

Attitude and Dance Floor Etiquette

Dear Readers, this seems to be an on-going issue, which I've also addressed on many occasions and is prevalent on the dance scene all over the world; and not just for salsa. In fact, if you do a search, you will find many sites talking about this issue.

Mike has asked for feedback from our readers.


Our Reader wrote... June 6 , 2001 from Mike
Our Feedback... June 11, 2001, feedback from John
  June 19, 2001, feedback from Melissa
  June 19, 2001, feedback from Canadian Latina
  June 20, 2001, feedback from John
  June 20, 2001, another story from Mike
  June 21, 2001, feedback from JP
  June 21, 2001, feedback from Hal
  July 15, 2001, feedback from Ulrike
  July 19, 2001, feedback from Sandra
Aug 31, 2001, feedback from John
September 16, 2001, feedback from Chinocubano
September 27, 2001, feedback from John
New!
 October 5, 2001, feedback from Sandra to John
New!
 October 10, 2001, feedback from John to Sandra
   


Mike wrote ...

Hi Rose & Ziv, I have two issues that I would like to address. I know that both these issues have been addressed before but I feel that there is a need to address them again. I would appreciate it if you could post this.

I will start off with dance floor etiquette. It seems like there are very few people who actually honour their space. It seems like all guys are concerned about is how many times they can spin their partner. Guys let me make this clear; when you are dancing with a partner she is your responsibility. Let me repeat that, your partner is your responsibility. That means that before you lead her into a crazy turn pattern you have to make sure that she's not going to get stepped on or bumped or elbowed. Know your surroundings and if in the last minute you see that you don't have space then hold off on that turn pattern. Your partner will appreciate you more.

Another thing is if you or your partner bump or step on someone apologize. Don't just pretend that it didn't happen.

Last thought on this topic is this. If your dancing with someone that you have never danced with and that you have never seen dance before test out the waters first. What I mean is don't start off your dance trying to lead her into a ...

The next issue that I would like to address is attitude. Guys I’m sure you have all had this happen to you. Your out in a club and you want to dance. You don't know anyone so you pick out a girl and you go up to her and politely ask her to dance. She turns gives you the once over and then says no. Now, ladies God knows your entitled to say no, but when your on the dance floor 30 seconds after we ask you to dance with another guy, it makes us wonder. Assuming we don't smell, look half-descent and are not soaking wet there really isn't a reason for you not to dance with us. So the only conclusion that we can come up with is that you have ATTITUDE. Now I have come to my own conclusion and this is based solely on my experiences. Because I’m a WHITE male Ladies automatically think that I have no rhythm. That pisses me off because I know that I do have rhythm and that I can dance. Ladies don't judge a book by it's cover...remember that? Give us chances, if you see that we can’t move don’t dance with us.

Guys, if you go to a club and you don't know anyone how to get ladies to say yes to you? You have to let them know that you can dance. One way of doing that is by dancing by yourself. Don't just stand there, move, do some footwork and believe me you will be noticed. When you’re looking for a girl to dance with, find the ones who are constantly dancing with different partners (chances are they are there to dance and won't say no to you).

In closing I urge everyone to observe the dance floor "etiquette", and please leave the ATTITUDE at the door.

Ladies/Gentlemen, I would love to hear your comments on these topics. Thank you and see you on the dance floor -- Mike

The Feedback....

June 11, 2001

Rose,

I agree with Mike. Us guys are ultimately responsible on that dance floor. We must make sure that our dance partner is SAFE and we MUST watch our space. We will run into people from time to time. Saying you are sorry after you bump into someone takes a few seconds and you will be surprised that people react positively after an apology. "I'm sorry" plus a smile does wonders on the dance floor.

I am also a white boy (in appearance) and I too have to go through the "prove I can dance" routine. This happens to all the clubs I have danced in. There are times I do understand it but there are days that I feel I am being discriminated against.

Ladies.....you are at the club to dance (am I assuming too much here), so why not dance with the person asking you to dance and if he can't dance then don't dance with him later on. Please don't judge by the color of one's skin. I bet you have danced with a non-white person that couldn't dance mmmmmm? I also bet you THOUGHT he could dance because he wasn't white. Please ladies... we are out there to have a good time. Give people the chance to dance with you. A polite "NO" will do if you are tired or just not in the mood. How would you feel if the guys turned you down because you don't "appear" to have any capability to dance? If your purpose in going to the club is to dance well please do so and dance the night away. Ladies remember the guy is asking you to DANCE and n
Have fun dancing people!!!!!

John "musthavsalsa"

June 19, 2001

Dance Floor Space

From a skilled female, it is utterly frustrating when you have a show-off of a partner or a guy who can't dance; and you are getting stepped on or getting elbows to the face while your partner is spinning you around or leading you into another couple. Believe me my friends don't think I go to spanish clubs to dance, they think I get into fights on the dance floor. My parents actually have started into me now.

There could be a million reason's why a girl will not want to dance with a guy. Major ones are getting groped, or having to teach the guy how to dance. Me, I go to have fun, get a workout and with guys I know, I am known to give a couple of pointers on how they are leading and ideas for new patterns off the top of my head. Believe it or not I am Italian. Discrimination is not an issue with me. If he can dance well, he looks good to me ......as long as there is no BO.

Melissa

June 19, 2001

Hi! Just wanted to inform Mike and John that there are girls out there who do give guys a chance. And the observation that Mike made about a guy dancing in place in hopes of proving he can dance and thus making his chances at being accepted a dance are totally correct. So if all else fails, guys, dance on the spot and show that you can dance and are there to dance.

In reply to Mikes (and John's) observation about female attitudes in the dance scene -- yes its true some females do have major attitudes; but not all. Speaking from experience, I usually do dance with just about every guy that asks me, young and old; and if I find that we are in tune and click, I will keep dancing. But there are also times that I'm not in the mood and just wish to dance with familiar faces. Does this mean I
have attitude? I hope not, because I am entitled to feeling the way I want to feel. One more quick hint; from experience, when looking at people dancing, I make mental notes of who i think i would like to dance with (if asked)

Sometimes i see guys who i know instictively i wouldn't really want to dance with -- they are either dancing way too fast or look as if trying to do complicated moves that they aren't sure of, and that could lead to potentially dangerous situations on the dance floor. Hope this has shed some light on your request.

Canadian Latina

June 20, 2001 - Dance Etiquette....shower, deodorant, cologne

Hi there ladies,

Melissa.....I'm sorry to hear that at times it seems you are in a "war zone". That is very unfortunate. I know it is ultimately the guys responsibility to make sure both of you have enough dancing space but sometimes the people around you are the one's that aren't considerate. I understand what you are saying about guys that "show hemselves" instead of making the girl look good.

I had an instructor in Dallas, TX that does that and now only a handfull of women (the one's that do not know him) dance with him. On the other end I know how frustrating it is to dance with a person that is just learning or is wanting to learn but remember we were once just like that person and someone was nice enough to at least dance with us once. I understand there are times we just don't feel like we will get our salsa fix if we dance with a person that is having difficulty keeping in step and this is normal. We all should try to be a little more patient and understanding to those who are willing to learn.

And for "BO"......a SHOWER, DEODORANT and GOOD COLOGNE before going to the club helps!! Guys....women love guys that smells good!!!! Sweat is normal, but sweat in combination with a body that hasn't been in the shower is a deadly combination. That is a definite "woman repellant".

Another way to show girls at a club that you (guy) can dance is bring a friend that you can dance with. Dance with her for a few songs and that should do the trick.

Canadian Latina....I am glad to hear that you are one of those ladies that will dance with most. There will be times that we will not be in the mood to dance with others and venture into the world of the unknown. This is normal. And you do not have an attitude when you feel like dancing only with familiar dancers. We all go through that.

Thanks ladies for the input. Let's get out there and DANCE!!!!
(guys....shower, deodorant and cologne please!!! ladies...one dance please!!
smile.)

John "musthavsalsa"

June 20, 2001 - Etiquette and space


Hi guys, Just wanted to drop you a little note, and tell you a funny story about last night at Berlins. I was dancing with a partner minding my own business and space when I turned and saw an older gentleman PUNCH a younger fellow in the ribs and then the younger fellow gave him a shot back.

Horrified I immediately stepped in and separated the two at which time the older gentleman started to yell at me telling me that this young punk had bumped into him continuously....and then the young fellow started yelling in my ear at which point I told them both to move to either side of me and I will dance in the middle so as to not have any more problems.

I felt like a grade 2 teacher, but I continued to dance. When the song ended the older gentleman went to sit down and take his shoes off and I approached him and asked him what happened. He started to yell about space and etiquette and how the guy had bumped into him continuously and had not apologized and how everyone should stick to their own space. I started to laugh...

This little incident just strengthens my point. When dancing on a packed dance floor you are bound to bump into people. When that happens don't act too macho, APPOLOGIZE. Even if it was your partner that bumped into someone, apologize on her behalf, because your partner is your responsibility.

Thanks and see you on the dance floor. Mike

June 21, 2001 -- Etiquette

Hi Rose,

Here's a link somebody forwarded to me recently:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/tango/etiquette.html

It is not strictly about latin dancing but covers the topic of all kinds of dance manners very thoroughly, I thought. Maybe your readers would like to check it out. (Not a commercial site, highly personal like yours, except not as elaborate.)

JP

June 21, 2001 - Bumping

That last message brought to mind a funny thing. I have friends in the competitive ballroom world. In Montreal they have this thing, if somebody is being an a****le on the floor bumping into one couple after another, two experienced couples will get up, scissor him (bump into him really hard from both sides simutaneously). Most idiots smarten right up once they can walk again.

I am not recommending this as daily practice but some people just beg for it in my humble opinion.

Take care, HAL

July 15, 2001

Hello Rose Knows, regarding my viewpoint on the salsa dance style discussion, it's your call -- it started out as a note to you, if you think it is not too banal or personal for the rest of your readers, please edit what you think is irrelevant, especially the "comical" and "competitive" about John and his friends. They are a truly nice bunch of folks, just really serious about their dancing; my intent is not to criticize; it just looks so funny to me at times, as I am sure they find our dancing style totally uneventful.

I forgot all about my original e-mail after I read the entire exchange on dance floor etiquette and then continued on with the rather contentious debate of where "salsa" originated and evolved. Once more I found myself totally intrigued about the degree of knowledge and conviction many dancers have about the music and the dance. The fact that ToSalsa provides a forum for us to follow these topics is great. Thank you.

On a funny note: we saw the issue of dance floor etiquette in action last night! We were dancing in a small, swanky place with a smooth dancing floor; it was crowded, and two couples were dancing right next to us. Two times already the male of one of the couples, who was spinning his partner out of control, had carelessly stepped back into the instep and heel of the petite Colombian woman of the other pair. She was mad, I could tell, because she had balled up her fists in anticipation of another wild move. She was going to swing at him, I thought, when at that moment he actually elbowed his own partner's nose so hard during a turn, that she ran off the dance floor to attend to it. Poetic justice?! Ouch! Best regards, Ulrike


July 19, 2001

Attitude

While I agree with John and Mike that poor attitudes on dance floors and everywhere are epidemic, I think they need to ask themselves when they perceive 'attitude', what kind of attitude are they projecting themselves? And what kind of assumptions or past negative experiences may be making them see attitude where there is none. Have they confirmed that these ladies find their 'whiteness' undesirable or is that they're own perception of themselves?

How much are these ladies being judged by the gentleman's own bitterness and does this not create an environment that keeps the attitude alive and healthy?

A woman says no, for whatever reason -- and you can always ask why -- don't let somebody else's responses, rude or otherwise make you jaded or think unkindly towards other potential dancers. Move on. There are lots of ladies that will say yes as long as you maintain yourself as a gentleman.

I have known male dance partners who deal with rejection so poorly that it has made them almost misogynistic. And when we make the comparison between dance partners and life partners, dance floors and life floors these kinds of developments are very disturbing.

Sandra Cisnero with Lilian Heller

August 30, 2001 -- Attitude

Well Sandra Cisnero with Lilian Heller,

Let me respond to your notion of what kind of attitude I am projecting. First of all I am a gentleman. When I approach a "female" I have a smile, extend my hand out and say in a nice tone "would you like to dance". The first expression I get is a look of disbelief then I am looked at from head to toe then she answers with "NO". You maybe "perceive" that I am bitter. Nope! It is just annoying. Specially after the "female" answered "NO" she turns around and dances with another person right infront me. I just smile and find another person to dance with. I frequent a lot of clubs and I know what I see and what I experience.

"How much are these ladies being judged by the gentleman's own bitterness and does this not create an environment that keeps the attitude alive and healthy?" I love this psychology talk. Girls come on and be real!! Guys like me did not create such environment nor are we keeping that kind of attitude alive. I go to the club for one reason only.....to dance and have fun. I do try very hard to pick the women I approach. I try to approach women I have seen dance with several men. They are in the club to dance.. No other agenda. Others have a different agenda which is OK. The only point I was trying to make (I think Mike too) was don't judge the guy just because he doesn't look latino and not dance with him. There are a lot of latinos that DO NOT know how to dance.

"Have they confirmed that these ladies find their 'whiteness' undesirable or is that they're own perception of themselves?" The perception is not that the "whiteness" is undesirable (such strong language), my experience is very pronounced. They look at me as I said earlier with a surprise, look me over and say NO. Not because I am not dressed properly. I do not look like a slob. I do not have BO. They perceive I can't dance because I am a non-latino. Some have approached me later after I have "proven" that I can dance. This is a fact! I did dance with them. Some even admitted they thought I couldn't dance and did apologize.

There you go. That's my 2 cents worth. Have fun and DANCE SALSA!!! -- John

September 16, 2001

on the dance floor

A Latino can't be White?
Poor Mike.
Canadian white girls won't dance with him because he is white. But I don't understand why people in this country only believe Latin people are dark skinned. Has anyone been
to Spain? Half the people are blond. Most people in the Southern part of South America would catagorize themselves as white. In fact what Mike considers Latin people are probably from South America, not the Carribean. Salsa, merengue, batacha, cumbia, are from the Carribean or the parts of the continent very close to it. And most of rhythms come from the African communities in the Carribean.

For many Canadians, the stereotypical image of a Latin person is a mestizo (from European and Native American or "Indian" heritage), but the in Puerto Rico and Cuba the native populations were very small or wiped out. Most people in Cuba are white, black, or are of mixed African and European heritage. People should keep in mind there is no one specific physical type of a Latin person, as this Chinese-Cuban will tell you. You dance and have fun. And to the Ballroom dancers, DON'T STEP ON ME in the nightclubs.
-- chinocubano

Dance Floor Etiquette

September 27, 2001

Chinocubano,
Well excuse us for being so limited in our knowledge of what "latinos" look like. Yes I made the mistake of "generalizing" that Latinos have a certain "color". But isn't the issue. Read the string of this topic and you will understand where we are coming from.

Thanks for educating me and others -- John

October 5, 2001 -- Attitude in salsa clubs; response to john

John, you just personified everything that I said in my response, if you were really listening. You give attitude as good as I'm sure you're getting it, so don't be surprised if there is more to come. That's what I was saying. You give it; you get it. Or there is the alternative. You get it and you let it go. Sounds like you've kept you're bad experiences and saved them into a very well-described scene in your mind. I like the way you lumped everything I had to say in a neat little category called 'psychology talk'; kinda makes having to really think about the several items I discussed, not as involving, doesn't it? That you stopped at that quote with that classification tells me that you tuned out to everything else right after.

I love the way you also tell me how I'm not being real because some how I said that you have created the environments that you step in. The reality is in the words I wrote not the ones you are adding to them. If you are not projecting attitude or not letting the attitude that is at the clubs (and everywhere) affect you and if you do just go to the clubs and have fun than this subject would be closed.

Although, I think you're response was insulting and condescending, I am writing this because it really does sound like you are quite bitter. Whether you have always been so sarcastic or the salsa experiences have created this, is unknown but I, myself, have gone through my own stages of bitterness and it doesn't do any good to keep them; it doesn't make anything better. Again, don't let somebody else's responses, rude or otherwise make you jaded or think unkindly towards other potential dancers or friends. That was the ending message and overall message that I tried to put across originally.

Sandra Cisnero and Lilian Heller are excellent writers who I have better insight into such topics then me; people who don't write in jargon but with the objective of clarity and perspective in mind. If it seems like we're trying to talk over somebody's head perhaps you should read it again -- Sandra Cisnero with Liliane Heller

October 10, 2001 - Response to your analysis

Sandra Cisnero with Liliane Heller,

I beg to differ with you on certain points first quote "You give attitude as good as I'm sure you're getting it, so don't be surprised if there is more to come." This is not necessarily true. You have not been approached by me so you wouldn't really know what I project.

"Sounds like you've kept you're bad experiences and saved them into a very well-described scene in your mind." I have not kept the bad experiences and don't make it sound as if I experience bad things at clubs all the time. What you are not understanding is that frustrations do enter and I am only pointing out that these things are real and not generated through my own mind nor did I create the situation.

"If you are not projecting attitude or not letting the attitude that is at the clubs (and everywhere) affect you and if you do just go to the clubs and have fun than this subject would be closed." I doubt this statement. Like I said for the most part I do have fun but there will be moments that I will get frustrated and I will just have to do the best I can to enjoy myself and I do.

"Again, don't let somebody else's responses, rude or otherwise make you jaded or think unkindly towards other potential dancers or friends. That was the ending message and overall message that I tried to put across originally." I agree.

"Sandra Cisnero and Lilian Heller are excellent writers who I have better insight into such topics then me; people who don't write in jargon but with the objective of clarity and perspective in mind. If it seems like we're trying to talk over somebody's head perhaps you should read it again." Now who is trying to be insulting and condescending? I guess they are the experts on dance etiquette. Maybe you will get to meet me someday and you will think otherwise of me.

Anyway, we both can agree to disagree on the perception we have on dance etiquette. I have my experiences and you have yours. We have our own opinions.

I'm glad Rose allows people to voice their views on her site and it is each ones choice to either agree or disagree with what is being said.

In closing let's all try to be more polite out there on the dance floor.

Have fun dancing -- John


Dear Readers, if you have any questions or feedback, click here.