The
Feedback....
June
3, 2001
Dear
Alex:
I'm sorry you feel this way about my column and salsa dancing in TO.
This is probably the first time you've ever surfed our web page and
do not understand what we're about. My column was originally inspired
by the writing of Edie the Salsa Freak from LA. When I first discovered
her web page, I read her "reviews" of the Mayan Club Dance
Contest in LA and how she got started in Salsa. I was thankful that
someone had taken the time to write about salsa in another part of the
world and was willing to take the time to share it with everyone. I
became a regular reader because I could rely on her to give me vivid
descriptions of salsa events I could not attend. Over the past year,
many readers have told me or written to me saying how my columns have
helped them keep up with what's happening in Toronto or at some event
they may not have attended. Also, if you're an avid salsa dancer, it
talks about anything and everything to do with salsa dancing for novices
and experienced dancers -- how you feel when you dance with someone,
what to look out for -- all the things you would debate with your friends.
Regarding my "clique", well you may choose to call it that
-- many of the individuals who are mentioned in our web page are passionate
about salsa dancing, are out in the clubs most nights, are instructors,
dancers or performers who travel to learn new moves and want to meet
and socialize with other dancers, performers and instructors from around
the world. In many cases, it turns out to be the same "group"
of salseros/salseras who share the same passion.
Regarding "Salsa sucks in Toronto", well you may feel that
way, but if you travel around the World, you will find that salsa is
evolving everywhere, and even "latina" from the US or Puerto
Rico, feel the music differently. If our dancing sucked so badly, why
are some of our dancers winning contests in various cities in Canada
and the U.S. and why are they being invited to perform or teach in other
cities? Regarding "feeling salsa", isn't that something everyone
feels personally and based on their own dance training or experiences
-- after all, salsa is considered a "street dance", not formalized
or owned by any one country; and each dancers' style is an interpretation
of how they feel the music and what "moves" they prefer to
execute.
Anyways, I could go on and on, and I'm sure there's many other Toronto
salseros and salseras who also do not share your viewpoint.
And finally, I would be most interested in reading your opinion about
"what the true essence of Salsa" is all about and would gladly
publish it on our web site -- Rose Knows
June
4, 2001
Alex (the one with a negative attitude)
Rose,
This guy Alex is typical of people that think they are the authority
on salsa. These are the same people that are envious of other people
that aren't latinos that can really dance to the salsa beat. People
like Alex do not see the beauty of sharing salsa with the rest of
the world. Alex is the type that would more than likely think that
there is only one way to dance salsa which we all know is not the
case. I feel sorry for people like him that are so limited in their
thinking. He is just as bad as other instructors that think that only
latino instructors can teach salsa the correct way. These people are
very narrow minded.
I am
not from Canada, but I do browse your site because I find it interesting.
You have done a great job. Don't let this type of negativity stop
you from keeping Canada informed about salsa events in Canada and
around the world.
You know
I wonder what Alex would have thought of the West Coast Salsa Congress.
He probably would have said the same thing he said to you. If he saw
Super Mario of London (who is really from India) dance, he would say
the same thing and this man has a million moves. Oh well! Let him
be grumpy.
Keep
on writing!! Have a nice day.
John
"musthavsalsa"
June
4, 2001
Many Canadian-Latinos feel like Alex, even though they are mistaken.
Most Latinos in Canada are from countries where Salsa is not part
of the popular culture (Peru, Ecuador, Chile, Central America, etc.).
But in North America Latinos assimilate Salsa as part of
their cultural identity, even though it has nothing to do with the
reality back home.
Therefore, when people from other cultures start changing what they
see as the real Salsa, they get angry as if you are robbing them of
their culture. But most of them don't know what the real Salsa is
or how dancing evolved. When I dance Casino with some Cuban friends,
many Latinos from non-Carribean countries often comment that Casino
is not the real Salsa. It is because they have never seen Cuban Salsa
dancing and it is different from how their uncle or parents danced.
And about the Latin soul? That is stupid and can even be viewed as
racist. Most of the people in the dancing cliques Alex talks about
dance better than most Latinos in Canada. Some of these Canadians
even speak Spanish better than these Latino-
Canadians. Most people agree that Salsa has its roots in the Carribean,
not in South America. But do I say you have to be Cuban or Puerto
Rican to dance well? No. There are many bad dancers in Cuba and Puerto
Rico and they have Latin almas.
In my experience, many Latino Canadians are too proud to take lessons
and hence their dancing suffers. After a while you get tired of kick
step back cumbia Salsa. They don't realize the cross body lead actually
comes from Cuba.
Latinos here tend to follow the music more, because they have listened
to it longer, not because of their souls. In the past I have criticized
how many people dance Salsa in Toronto, but never the people. Everybody
in any race or culture has talent or ability to do anything equally.
I have just said that I prefer Cuban style Salsa dancing or Casino
to other styles. For me, Casino is the only style that fully appreciates
the music and respects the clave. New York developed it's own take
on Salsa music and Casino.
And in the future, another city or country might develop its own Salsa
music and dancing. (But who has heard of California style Salsa music?)
-- Jo Kim
June
4, 2001 -- Response from Alex to Rose Knows
I'm very glad you responded.
To let
you know, I have been checking this site out for some time and I was
NOT just "surfing" as you called. I read it from time to
time to see if your comment style has changed...and it never does!
It IS a communication board for your friends. There are other great
dance teachers in Toronto, but there is never a mention of them. WHY?
Also, You write everything in the personal...You might want to take
a writing course so that your style of writing doesn't come across
as being one-sided.
As for
salsa evolving...I have danced Salsa in Latin America, across Canada,
the United States and even in Europe. The problem with Toronto Dancers
is that there is too much focus on who has the better steps...who
can show off the most! The dancing and passion gets lost in this.
Other Salsa capitals of the world, especially New York, doesn't do
that. Yeah, they show off, but they also make you feel that YOU are
the reason they are showing off.
My explanation
of Salsa is simple...It is not a matter of style of dance...It is
these basic elements....PASSION (this being the most important), RHYTHMN
and CONNECTION. Connection not meaning hand to hand, but energy to
energy.
Tell
me Rose, have you ever danced with someone who is a great leader and
has great steps, but there was something missing? Later you might
have a dance with some who only knew basic steps, but you had the
best time dancing with them because they were putting so much effort
into dancing with you!
I have
only one piece of advice for all dancers...Pro to Beginner...Dance
for your partner, not for yourself. The most basic step can be made
to look so beautiful if you are dancing for the other person and dancing
from the soul.
Alex.
June
4, 2001
Hello Rose, this is Ismael Otero, I think that you should keep doing
what you are doing -- it's your site, whomever doesn't like it, shouldn't
go into it. You can't please everyone. For anyone that has a problem
with Toronto or the dancing anywhere, if you think attacking will
get your point accross, it will in a negative way.
Salsa is spreading everywhere and I'm very happy about it. If the
dancers don't know the essence of salsa, then someone should show
them and not attack them. People are used to what surrounds them.
For me, I don't care who is better or worse as long as you enjoy yourself;
but funny as it sounds, some people have to be taught to have fun.
I can understand some people's frustration that makes them attack
instead of trying to make people understand. I think Alex should try
to show his views and not put people down and I'm sure someone will
understand where he is coming from, but remember that everyone has
their own perception on what Salsa is. I don't compete on the dance
floor if someone is throwing down -- I do my thing on the side; but
if you put up $2000, now I will compete -- 2 different things. Point
being, don't hate, educate.
Take
care
Ismael Otero
June
4, 2001
Dear Alex,
Thank
you for writing back to me again, and in a sense you have redeemed
yourself with your comments about your explanation of Salsa...
"It
is not a matter of style of dance...It is these basic elements....PASSION
(this being the most important), RHYTHM and CONNECTION. Connection
not meaning hand to hand, but energy to energy."
If you had read ALL my stories, you would have read those moments
where I do remind the guys about this connection, the last one being
while I was dancing in New York in which I wrote:
"I
will definitely want to come back to New York as I had a blast dancing
with the men! They have a totally different attitude to dancing with
women! They aren't in their own world with their dancing or take it
too seriously, they actually dance with you, and share their passion
for the music. Because of this, you're inspired to put your best into
your dancing and don't worry about whether you're going to screw up
with some moves on 2. They just pretend it never happened and continue
dancing with you."
And your
question: "Tell me Rose, have you ever danced with someone who
is a great leader and has great steps, but there was something missing?
Later you might have a dance with some who only knew basic steps,
but you had the best time dancing with them because they were putting
so much effort into dancing with you!"
Yes, of course I do! Without naming names, I think many of them know
who they are also. But for the ones who still aren't there yet; there
could also be many reasons for that -- maybe they're still learning
all the components of being a good leader and doesn't feel comfortable
yet with the music, or maybe they are shy and don't know how to communicate
that energy. For many, latin music is fairly new to them, and it takes
time to understand and interpret the music.
I never said dancing was all about steps, and there's a whole psychology
to dancing and why people dance -- we could probably write a book
on it! Many people dance for many reasons, but there's one thing we
all have in common when it comes to dancing and that is our love of
the music, the chance to communicate/socialize with the opposite sex
on a different level, and the dance itself! If it wasn't for this,
TOsalsa would not exist today -- it was borne from this common passion.
And finally regarding the communication board for my friends -- well,
that's your own personal opinion which I cannot change. I feel one
of the reasons for our growing readership is that it has a personality.
I took the perspective that I would write for the dancers who missed
out on what was happening in the salsa scene from a dancer's perspective.
And if that means I end up writing about the dancers who are out there
dancing and "making a difference", then so be it. I can't
be writing about good dancers or instructors who never go out to the
clubs; and/or don't advise us of their events.
If I were to write it as a "reporter", it would have such
an impersonal touch and it wouldn't be any different than reading
a newspaper or a magazine. For myself, it would not be as interesting
to read. If you look at the most successful salsa dance website, www.salsaweb.com,
it was Edie's personality and passion which made it grow to the size
it is today; and helped fuel other great sites, such as SalsaNewYork,
which also has it's own personality. My perspective was to give budding
readers an "insight" as to a dancer's perspective. If you
talked to any salsa addict, we are always continually debating or
discussing lots of different dance topics; and I just provide one
perspective to those dancers who don't have time to always go out
dancing and still want to find out what is going on in the Toronto
dance scene.
Regarding your comment about a "writing" course, actually
I think it's hilarious that you would comment on that, as many writers
have commented that I have a great writing style, and I've also taken
business writing courses in the past and have always been an avid
reader of books and magazines. What makes it even funnier, is that
I just read an article not too long ago, that says that some of the
most successful websites are those that write "in the personal".
Anyways, obviously you're as passionate about Salsa as I am, and this
could be a never-ending debate... similar to various discussions I've
had with my friends about dancing.
Maybe I'll see you on the dance floor somewhere, if you spot me, don't
hesitate to come up and ask me for a dance! -- Rose Knows
June
4, 2001
Well well well -- I wrote an article about this very debate -- It was
actually written
in response to Kleyber's article in Picante, saying the same thing Alex
said. I do not attack Kleyber personally -- I take a very broad viewpoint
yet make strong statements at the same time.
I
think you both have good valid points, perhaps Alex doesn't understand
that you are writing from your personal experience and in your context.
This means you go to certain downtown clubs in TO. and frequent a certain
crowd. There are other instructors however they are not getting around
to these places so how would you know about them?
I do have one point to contest about Alex's view that in New York they
show off, but they also dance from the soul. Ha! I think I am entitled
to say, being a part of that scene myself, that it is not true unfortunately.
Dancing schools compete way more than the ones here, and steps are important
(that's Eddie's style, that's Angel's style, that's Delille's step).
People go to salsa school, take it as an art form, and so it loses its
charm. In the clubs, there are the hardcore dancers who do not use it
to seduce, latino or not, and there are the ones who go to socialize
and pick up -- there is a clear line between the 2. In fact, I asked
a latino hardcore dancer/performer why there wasn't any dancing "pegadito".
The intimacy is lost in NY amongst these schooled dancers. It's all
about art, and passion without necessarily connecting.
So
that's my 2 cents, I could go on and on. Basically I can sum it up this
way: dancing salsa in Toronto is awesome. It is eclectic and progressive
if you hang around the salsa posse. if you just go to have fun and take
it lightly, to socialize, you will usually find more Latinos. You will
dance closer, tighter, dancing the same steps over and over. I danced
like that for 10 years in Toronto. I miss that, but I also have great
connections dancing with the new generation of salsa goers. So both
ways of dancing are good.
The purists will always get upset when they see "their" dance
being interpreted by others. That is what evolution, progress and change
are based on; and so, the mini-revolutions will always explode when
change does happen. It's just a normal process.
So Rose, don't get too upset when people attack you, you are doing a
great job. Ask Alex "why don't you start your own website, then
come to me and complain"
stephanie
la salsera
Stephanie's Article about Dancing
Dance is movement. Expression. Passion. Release. Identity. Dance can
be any emotion, powerful or light. It can be a cultural statement, a
liberation from oppression, religious or social. Dance is a physical,
mental and spiritual rejuvenation. It can be expressed in celebration
of life and love, through performance showcases, or even in competition.
Salsa
dance, is all these things. Somehow it reaches people in a way that
other dances do not. Somehow, it is more accessible to all cultures,
transcending social barriers, age, sex, size, which is why it is the
most danced dance in the world now. Maybe salsa stands out from the
rest because of its entrancing and infectious percussive rhythms that
awaken our primitive nature. Maybe salsa is drawing due to its intensity
- its dramatic minor laments, uplifting melodies, or heartfelt romantic
sounds. It can't be solely for its lyrics as more than half of salsa
dancers don't understand Spanish! Maybe because one can feel salsa naturally,
learn salsa methodically or both: learn it then feel it.
I write this to give perspective on dance, to emphasize how passionate,
personal and powerful dance-and salsa- are. People do crazy things in
the name of salsa dance. They give up other hobbies, friends, jobs,
sometimes partners to be able to dance. This fever starts in different
ways:
If you are Latino, you probably grew up hearing salsa everywhere: through
car radios, through the walls of houses, in supermarkets, at all festivities.
It is basically background music. You might have thought it was just
for your parents, or that it was music for the working class, or for
the ignorant and un-educated. Maybe salsa was used as an excuse to get
closer to the girl or boy you liked at a high-school dance. Salsa was
a cultural identity, expressing yourself as a part of a community, town,
city or country. Now that it is recognized as being popular worldwide,
you are probably amazed that non-Latinos are enjoying your own music.
They are enjoying is soooo much in fact, that it's not only a craze,
or fad- it's a steadily increasing passion. People always say that it
takes a foreigner to appreciate your own culture better. It's no longer
just taken for granted, but explored, studied, researched, juiced.
If
you are not Latino, you might have read about salsa in the papers, heard
it blaring out of cafes or seen it being danced at your regular R&B
club hangout. You probably are wondering what the hype is all about
and one of two things happened: You have always wanted to be a good
dancer and be admired on the dance floor but every time you think about
it, panic sets in, and you hear voices: voices telling you that you're
are no good at dancing, you have 2 left feet, you are a clutz, you are
shy around people, that dancing is not for serious people. So you ignored
your desire to dance. OR, you took a few classes and found that it is
quite a skill in fact, that finding out the structure makes dancing
a lot easier than it looks! You see that anyone can do it, as long as
they focus on learning it. You either get frustrated because you can't
dance like the best dancer on the floor in a month and give up, or,
you continue taking lots of classes, enjoying it more and more, perfecting
your skill, developing your coordination, social skills, and totally
having a blast!!!!
Different
styles come about and people are either open to them or not. Change
is never well received. Dancing mambo ('on 2') for example, which seems
to be the 'new craze' is not new at all. However, in different parts
of the world, people are embracing this old dance and interpreting it
in all sorts of ways.
In
Toronto, it has taken 3 years for mambo to catch on. It is just starting
to become more popular and danced by more and more salsa dancers. Yes
it is different: Different in timing, in feeling, in style, in technique.
It can be danced simply or in a complicated fashion. Once you understand
'dancing to clave' you find how in synch you are with the rhythm section
of the salsa orchestra as opposed to the melody or tune. It is a deep
experience. I always say, dancing a few steps and never changing is
like being in a cottage with closed doors. Once you open them and see
the breathtaking view of the mountains on the horizon, you never want
to close those doors again! Then again, maybe you like to be in one
spot, and look inwards and find riches in simplicity.
There
is no right or wrong in dance.
It
takes years to understand that on your own. If you are open to change,
if you want to explore different space around you and progress, assert
yourself, a little guidance never hurt. A little structure never hurt.
A little letting go never did anyone any harm.
Dancing
mambo is still dancing. We all dance for our own reasons, learn in different
ways and at different rates. It doesn't matter what or how you dance
as long as you dance!
Stephanie
la Salsera
June
4, 2001
I disagree with Alex. I personally go out every nite and I take classes
from most of the teachers in Toronto. And I Terry Tzee feel that toronto
has lots to offer in all dancing and with Salsa dancing especially is
fantastic. The tosalsa.com and the column that you Rose and Ziv do up
is well worth reading. I have spoken to people in other cities and they
say there is not much in the way of Salsa dance places Ie London Ont.
my home town there is only one or two places and they only cover 2 nites
a week. Now I may be wrong on that. I know of two nites a week. In Kingston
I had a hard time to find a place. in Fact I did not find it. I understand
when I was in the States Detriot for the Bacarde Salsa Congress to learn
more moves and to learn from the best instructors from around the world.
Including our own. Like Feista Productions dancers with some of them
belonging to United Salseros, Los Salsomanos, and some free lancers
. Our own On Beat all ladies dancers were excellent. Stefanie Gunon
was there
P.S. By the way Alex do you go to the other cities to dance? I love
the Toronto Salsa Scene. it is the best i have heard from the other
cities in comparison and I will be going to a lot of the Workshops to
learn more. and I was in Detriot and I am looking forward in going to
Puerto Rico in July/Aug. and maybe to New York soon afterward.
Do
you go to any of these places to learn new steps new Ideas?
Have
a great day enjoy the expression in the art of dance. see you on the
dance floor -- Terry Z
June
4, 2001
Just dance!!
Rose, It
is nice to see that you are as cool as they come. This site was created
by you so do as you please!!
I
am with Ismael....do not hate but educate. If this guy Alex is REALLY
passionate about SALSA, he should be out there teaching others how to
FEEL the music and be passionate.
I
am new in the SALSA arena (1yr and a few months). I do not speak Spanish.
But I love the way the beat gets me to move. I feel the rythm. I dance
to the way "I" feel. Maybe in Alex's eyes this isn't correct
either because I might not be feeling what he feels.
SALSA
has affected the whole world. I was at the West Coast Salsa Congress
in LA and I saw people from Thailand, AUstralia, Norway, Germany, Japan,
etc. dancing to the wonderful sound of SALSA. Are they dancing to Alex's
standard? Probably not but who cares? Everyone was dancing to how they
felt and they were enjoying themselves. I believe that is the whole
point of dancing.....enjoying yourself!! If you want to be a technical
dancer..so be it. Do all the moves you can come up with. If you want
to be like Alex with lots of passion then do it as long as you are enjoying
yourself.
Alex...you
are probably a nice guy (maybe a good dancer?????) but lighten up. It's
just dancing. Go out there and have fun!!! DANCE WITH PASSION!! Dance
the way you want to and don't care how others are dancing. That's their
choice and not yours.
John
"musthavsalsa"
June 5, 2001
Wow, I have so much to say, but only a brief amount of time. I laughed
extremely hard when he said it's different in New York. Actually, New
York is the capital of this showing-off disease.
As for dancing with the soul. There is a style difference from people
who dance traditional style with less turns and more movement, and those
who focus on spins and turns. I think both are are done with and without
soul, but the one who does the turn patterns without soul sticks out
more because it is more flashy.
Alex's argument gets repeated again and again, because there is less
focus on movement, and more on partner dancing. He is right to say there
needs to be focus on movement, but wrong to equate that with passion.
The showing off is a separate issue, but one that seems to be linked,
due to the flashiness of the turn patterns
Love,
Dave Paris, a Performer/Instructor with Razz-M-Tazz in New York City
June
6, 2001
Hi Rose, Looks
like this topic has been thoroughly covered while I wasn't looking.
Here's MY $.02 anyway.
First,
I think you should thank Alex. THIS is the kind of frank, open discussion
that makes your site so interesting. And thank-YOU for having the guts
to put it out there.
Various
points, pro and con:
I
don't agree with him, but I also would not go so far as to call his
email "nasty". It wasn't praise and it wasn't supportive,
but just like you, and me, and everyone else who contributed to the
thread, he is just expressing an opinion. If he told you that he enjoyed
your writing so much that he was in love and wanted to marry you I am
sure
you would not take it seriously, so why take to heart the opposite view?
As
an Argentine Tango instructor born thousands of miles from the Rio de
Plata region, I also hear this "alma latina" garbage every
once in a while. As if any nation, group, or culture had a patent on
passion, vivacity, panache, zest for life, and also sorrow, suffering,
tears, and yes, even obsession. These are HUMAN traits, not just Latin
ones.
As
for subjectivity, it's YOUR web site and you have every right to express
your views. What is that line usually attributed to Voltaire? "I
disagree with you intensely but I will defend to death your right to
express your opinion." I too don't agree with everything I read,
but by old habit I always carry a huge boulder of salt with me everywhere
I go, so...
And
I too feel that you (and some of your friends) are way too obsessive
about salsa. As there are people who are obsessive about Tango, or about
gardening, or hockey... Not necessarily a criticism, just a difference
in attitude. I prefer to be (and to hang out with people who are) more
rounded, more eclectic. e.g. The other day one of my friends gave me
a mini-lecture on sanskrit poetry. There are things on earth just as
breath-taking as salsa (and tango).
Check out this link: http://www.vanderburg.org/black_marigolds.html
As
for "salsa in TO sucks", I think in technical terms it's world-class.
What we desperately need is more heart. Two anectodes:
First one happened to a friend. She was dancing with an "advanced"
dancer. (Mind you, she is no beginner.) She misinterpreted a lead, went
the wrong way. He sharply whispers, "You are making me look bad."
Excuse me?
Second
one is mine. A woman I vaguely know came over, asked me to dance. Sure.
We get up start dancing. Now I am no Valentino but I am at least her
level. We are dancing, one minute, two minutes, she did not ONCE look
at me, she did not ONCE come close to having a smile on her face. For
all practical purposes she could have been on a
treadmill at the gym, complete with walkman and book. After the third
minute I felt I was intruding too much, thanked her for the dance and
walked away.
keep
well, HAL
June
6, 2001
Salsa Comments
by Alex
-- Oh no, not "another" one of these that I know what Salsa
is really about.
Please.
The fact is if we were strictly a Latin website, and we were talking
about similar things, we wouldn't be debating. There is a racial undertone
here that I'm not comfortable about. Whoever this person is please tell
me to write to the Puerto Rican Salseros in New York who apparently
know nothing about Salsa.
Furthermore,
to assume that instructors in Toronto (just because they have more intricate
choreography patterns) know nothing about feeling the "essence"
of Salsa and is not aware of the history and development of it is, frankly,
a dumb, presumption.
I
would not be suprised the initial letter was just written just to get
reaction. Furthermore, what Rose does to her columns are her business.
Don't visit the website if you feel it does not represent your views,
and don't even bother responding.
Alexis
Colby
Tolerance
is NOT the biggest latin virtue...
About all this commentaries if dancing salsa in TO sucks or not... I
am a latin guy, I have lived in Toronto for 4 years and I will be as
honest as I can here about this topic.
I think I can see why so much trouble from the part of some latinos
about how latin dance, (not just salsa, also merengue, bachata, cumbia,
cha cha cha, etc) is danced here...
First, like in every culture we have our cultural prejudices....
Prejudices in dancing too... examples?
if the guy dances a little bit like ballroom, we think... look he is
gay...
If the couple does lots of fast turns, we joke... i thought this was
a club, not a the contest...
if they look very smooth and do many choreographies, we think... definitely
way too much technique... that's not dancing... that's performing!!!!
etc etc etc...
the thing is we use dance mainly to have fun, to flirt, to express something...
joy, romanticism, sexuality, seduction, whatever... but something...
that's why the first complaint of a latino guy or girl usually is: here
people only focus on doing moves... they forget the music, the feeling,
etc...
but I believe that here many people do express themselves IN THEIR OWN
WAY while dancing... but of course not in the common latin way... and
that's a bit hard to realize of and accept, and value... since we think
that latin music is basically OUR music... which is partly true...
for example, how a latin girl usually expresses herself in dancing...?
she is SEXY..., FUN, she moves the hips... sort of flirt with her body...
that does not mean that she likes the guy, but she likes the music!!!
she enjoys the song.... and move, really move... of course not all of
them... but those ones who do not move show that they like the song,
the words, the feeling....
how a latin guy dance.... kind of the same... he has fun, usually he
wants to move with the music or in the music, whatever... the thing
is, when dancing, it's common that he is into the girl, and doesn't
care if she notices it... he is playing, having fun, flirting, whatever...
maybe just enjoying the song...
we, latinos, usually think it is very unpolite not to smile at all while
dancing or not to express (without words but dancing) your like for
the song at least, or not to even look at the person you're dancing
with... etc, etc...
of course, you can make it obvious you don't wanna dance.... - God,
i don't wanna dance with him... and this goes for the guy or girl....
but usually, when we don't wanna dance with a person we don't ask that
person to dance, or the girls say no... whatever.... the thing is, if
the guy asks the girl to dance is usually because he
wants to dance the song, but also dance it WITH her, for whatever reason,
the same goes for the girl...
if the girl accepts to dance, presumably she is fine in dancing with
that guy... well, this is mainly about dancing in clubs, not in latin
family parties...
here, it is very common not to feel connection with whoever you're dancing
with... and i'm not talking about the physical connection (which also
sort of is lacking here since people don't really dance close, and in
some situations that sucks so much...), but any connection, emotional
connection for the song that you both are dancing and enjoying together....
also for the moment that you both are having now dancing... simple...
but this is not etiquete, manners, it has to be honest,
natural, because your partner can perceive it when you just pretend....
who cares if there is a correct and 'nice' frame or posture, right holding
of hands, etc... that's not the connection i'm describing here... i'm
talking about emotional connection, mutual sharing of something....
whatever... but sharing....
to conclude, we, latinos, like to see dancing how WE usually dance,
close, expressing like for the music, the song, the girl.... whatever...
but not all salsa dancers are latinos, thanks God beacuse I love dancing
with non-latino girls too, and that's so fine........
also, one more thing, in TO salsa is quite snobby and showy, and it
seems that some people (and not few) take it TOO serious when they dance,
i was never so self-conscious while dancing than here.... but who cares
about doing 100 different things, maybe many people do care... but here
in TO, not in latin countries, we care more about other things.... about
what... well, about dancing, but to have fun with the people that we
are dancing with...
finally, i believe that the best dancer is not the one whom you like
only to see dancing.... but the one with whom you love to dance....
the pro should be able to adapt his super skills with someone who just
dance... and transmit something to his partner.... i'm thinking about
the experiences of professional dancers from TO who visit latin countries...
people there just dance, don't do many things.... maybe they're gonna
get bored, if that's the case, that's a bit dissapointing for the pro,
but also for the latino who 'doesn't know' how to dance.
Latin people, have a very very strong culture.... dance is part of it...
let's enjoy it all..
bye for now, ben.
June
7, 2001
Rose, just wanted to tell you to keep up the great work and don't let
negative comments like Alex's get to you. It's your personal touch and
insight that keep me coming back and reading your website. I don't go
out very much more, so in a way you keep me up to date and informed.
This is a terrific, productive service you offer; and I AlWAYS look
forward to reading your anecdotes for the week. As for Alex, he sounds
like he is the one that needs lessons of a sort. (won't mention what)
-- latina
June
7, 2001 -- all about Alex
Alex probably comes from Central or South America. But Salsa comes from
Cuba or Puerto Rico. I don't think Alex has enough soul to join our
club. You also have to keep in mind that most people imitate their instructors.
Most of the instructors that teach the styles that Alex hates are Latin.
California or L.A. style salsa is the product of Mexican-Americans in
California. N.Y. style salsa is the Puerto Rican take on Cuban style
salsa or casino -- chino y cubano
June
8, 2001 - Misunderstanding
Hi Rose,
First
of all, it's really funny how everyone has assumed that ALEX is a guy.
She happens to a be a friend of mine and her full name is Alexia. She
is NOT latin - she is European, and she's been dancing salsa way before
Toronto made it popular. Her love of the music is accompanied by her
love of the culture, people, food and of course, dance.
Her
problem with the salsa community was most likely transferred onto your
website, as it is one of the forums used to propagate the culture that
has now evolved.
How
has it evolved? Well, when salsa clubs first opened it T.O., there were
very few non-latin dancers. In fact, I would say that Alex was the one
of the first WHITE-non-LATIN dancers in the city. In case you don't
know this (because you may not have been in the scene long enough),
the clubs now, consist mostly of non-latin, lack of vibe, all for show,
and I hesitate to use the word - dancers.
Don't
get me wrong, I like salsa clubs the way they are. BUT! for true latin
dancers and my fried Alex, salse is not meant to be a dance of show-only.
It should, if done right, bring about a feeling of love and unity. A
person going to a salsa club should NEVER feel like an outsider AND
they should NEVER feel like they're not good enough! I think the community
needs to STOP being so "clique-y" and open their hearts. If
you really want the scene to take off and if you really want to share
your feelings for the dance, you should embrace new comers and those
alike.
For
my friend Alexia, I hope that once the people in the salsa community
finally learn to open up, you will come dancing again. It's you and
those like you that made salsa popular in the first place! -- Sheila
June
8, 2001
Okay.. When
someone says to you "your dancing sucks", why would you welcome
them into your group with open arms, let alone dance with them. The
reason that it appears as though we have a clique is because enjoy dancing
with each other, and we appreciate each other's style and expression.
As a result, we tend to belong to the same dance groups, learn with
the same teachers, travel together etc.. We share a similar style, but
we all feel the music in our own way. People with similar interests
tend to flock together. We can appreciate that other people dance differently,
even though it may not be our preference.
In every dance scene, there is usually a group of people that take the
lead in learning new technique and style and then bring it back home
to mesh it with what we already have. This is what helps dancing grow.
If some of us drop out of the scene, there will be others to take our
place. If we come back and find that we are "behind/not up to speed
with the latest moves", we have at least three choices:
1) stay out of the scene;
2) accept that we are behind, and decide if we want to catch up - and
if we do, take lessons, go out more... do what you need to do to be
at the level we want to be; or
3) criticize the new style and remain "on the outside" --
Your choice...
When
I started dancing, I was more drawn to certain dancers for their style.
If I wanted to dance with them well, I had to learn that style and be
able to follow. I am an example of someone new or from the outside who
became a regular in the salsa scene, so to say that newcomers are not
welcome is completely false.
Ever since I started dancing regularly, many new dancers have come into
the "regular's" scene; I can't think of a time where we have
excluded someone from a trip or an event because we didn't think that
they were "good enough". Most of us will remember what it
was like when we first started, and how awesome it was when a good dancer
gave us a chance to dance with them.
Whether or not we are Latin, we can enjoy music and express ourselves
through the dance. I believe that ethnicity is irrelevant. Music is
music and it doesn't belong to anyone - I'm unclear as to how anyone
can rightly say that someone is not dancing properly to the music..
especially salsa which is not a pure dance.
Indeed
everyone has their opinion of what dancing is, and perhaps we should
just respect that. My opinion here is that saying that someone's style
sucks only puts up walls, creates negativity and defensiveness and encourages
segregation. Who cares what your style is. Dance your heart out, introduce
yourself to people, don't be afraid to ask people to dance. Perhaps
there have been some bad experiences, but knowing most of the regular's
personally, I find that if someone asks us to dance, we rarely say no
if asked nicely (instead of aggressively, forcefully or rudely).
One
more thing...if the regular salsa crowd in Toronto sucks so much, why
would you want to be a part of it? -- Caryl Cuizon
June
11, 2001 -- More about Alex's e-mail by chino y cubano
Is there anyone who believes that they don't dance with passion, soul
or rhythm? Alex's and Sheila's criticisms are too vague and simple minded
to be taken seriously. We have to open up our hearts? Even Latin ballroom
dancers dance with passion, although not with the music. And you need
to have great partner connection to do the million
spins that California style salsa dancers do.
This debate seems to be the same debate that Jo. Kim did, except less
sophisticated and more hurtful. Alex loves the food, culture and people.
You mean Cuban food, Cuban culture, Cuban people? Salsa is Cuban music
or I would even buy Puerto Rican music, but not Latin Music.
I wish the other Latin people would become more educated about the music
that is not obviously not theirs. Do not lump all Latin people and countries
together. Other Latin people learned Salsa dancing from Cubans. And
for us many South American and Central American Latinos dance badly.
Even in New York, most Americans who are part of the Salsa scene dance
better than the majority of the Latinos (except the professional dancers).
June
11, 2001
Well now lots of interesting commentaries.... Here are mine after so
many tries (system kept crashing as I was writing).
Alex seems to be very bitter at the fact that people don't dance the
way she thinks Salsa should be danced. What's funny is that even though
she is European, she sounds very much like some of the Latino dancers
that I have encountered. Many of them are the dancers that have been
around for quite some time and have never adapted to the new style of
dancing. They mention how others don't feel from the heart and dance
without soul or feeling. Watching them dance I think that many (not
all) of those - let's call them original Latinos - also don't dance
with feeling.
Latinos are usually referred to as hot blooded (when it comes to women).
They love to dance with women, especially if they are beginners. I guess
many of us go through that stage (you know if you are single and having
fun). However, if they encounter non-Latino men they will try to tell
them what Salsa is about and that it's a Latin thing (kind of like what
Alex is trying to do). Get a few Latinos and sometime they'll even make
fun and laugh at the poor guy. So let's see.... They love Latino women
because they can act like predators and don't like non-Latino men for
various reason. Some of it may be due to competition or an inferiority
complex. Do you think these Latinos like to have their girlfriends (or
boyfriends) dance closely with someone else? Even though it's only having
fun? I DON'T THINK SO! How would Alex's boyfriend (let's say she has
one) feel if she were dancing close (energy to energy) to someone else.
Would she feel comfortable dancing in front of him in the same manner
as she speaks?
I
don't totally disagree with what Alex is saying. Most people don't take
the time to really enjoy the music because they are too busy showing
off. Also many people don't have connection. What I mean by this is
that the couple don't necessarily dance for each other (no eye contact,
no playfulness, energy to energy as she put it, etc...). They also don't
have that physical connection that good leaders and followers have.
Perhaps they are satisfied at this stage or they are still at a learning
stage and have not picked up on this or no one has taught them.
Perhaps
they don't know enough about the music to appreciate it the way Alex
describes. Which goes back to personal taste and even knowledge of the
music/culture (I am also guilty of not educating myself enough on this
subject).
This
can be done by checking other websites, reading books or just surfing
the net. TOsalsa is more of a forum of the Salsa events that are happening
as well as Rose's views and experiences.
What's
difficult for some of the instructors who may want to teach a different
style, whether it be old or new, is that for the most part they have
to teach the latest trends/fads or they may lose their clientele. In
Toronto, where we have such a diverse musical and ethnic background,
Salsa is still in a developing stage. Furthermore, I think that it will
always be in a developing stage as it is influenced by many countries
such as the U.S., Puerto Rico, Cuba, Columbia, as well as other Latin
and non-Latin countries/dances.
Alex
is correct in stating that a long time ago most of the dancers were
Latinos (not necessarily the best dancers). Starting out 8 years ago
when the dancing style was mostly Cumbia, I remember Frank Bishun, Natalie,
my girlfriend Michelle, Katrina, Abby Mina, Moe, Rachael, and Martin
as the best non-Latino dancers. Then there were the best Latino dancers:
Oscar DePalma, Oscar Naranjo, Daniel Torres, Marina, Paul, Melissa,
Vladimir (and his sister), Alberto Gomez, Walter, Josie Neglia (the
instructor from L.A.) Pedro Salazar, Ricardo, Alex Restrepo, Guillermo
Baez, Hector (came later), (not sure how long Teria has been dancing)
and I'm sure there were a few others that I'm missing. These Latino
dancers (many were instructors) are not dancing Salsa at all or only
do it occasionally. Some of them seem to be the biggest critics or complainers.
Even though 8 years ago isn't that long - it is in the Salsa scene (I
feel like a veteran).
Not
to toot my own horn but after dancing for 1 year, I was considered by
many to be one of the top dancers. This was told to me by some of the
dancers that were around at the time I first started. I have heard that
a couple of them now say that I am also one of those that don't feel
the music. Or that I dance like a sheep (or is it duck?). I sometimes
get mad, other times I laugh outloud. Do I not feel the music? Perhaps
I don't according to them, but who are they to tell me that I don't
feel the music or that I can't interpret it the way I want to? Who are
these same people that try to ridicule some of the top dancers behind
their backs or talk down to them (usually it's to the women - very brave).
One
of my friends was talked down to by someone for not dancing the way
she used to or by his standards (JERK). My friend was very distraught
and sat down trying to figure out what she had done wrong. Everyone
should be able to interpret the music how they feel or how they want
it to look on the dance floor. It's a matter of personal choice. If
music and dance didn't evolve, then Alex would not have been able to
do any partner dancing when she started out. Everybody would have been
dancing on their own. Times change - as does music and dance.
I
don't think that the way Alex's views as well as that of some of the
Latinos are unwarranted. Not to sound biased or prejudiced, but as a
Latino I feel that some of the best dancers should be Latino as it is
part of our culture. Now there are some Latinos who are at considered
"some of the best dancers". However, the majority are non-Latino.
Instead of putting down the new style of dancing and the non-Latino
dancers, who at this stage are outnumbering the Latinos as the best
dancers, why not better yourself as a dancer. What's also a shame is
that many times I feel that the non-Latinos appreciate Salsa more than
Latinos. We seem to take it for granted. This is no one else's fault
but our own.
If
we, as instructors as well as promoters (includes websites), are not
furthering Salsa then why is it that when I started dancing approx.
8 years ago there were only a few clubs (El Rancho, Balmuto, Ba-Ba-luu's
when it was on Cumberland, and Berlin's) open and now there is more
than a dozen and probably 2 dozen that play Salsa music sometime during
the week. There are also hundreds, if not thousands, that are now considered
regulars at one club or another, i.e. approx. 4 years ago I started
a Salsa article via email to a few friends that has now grown to over
2 thousand readers. Introducing new people to Salsa via websites, email,
etc., can't be all bad. Just more people to party with.
I
doubt that Salsa will be danced to everyone's liking. Similarly I don't
think that everyone will like TOsalsa or Rose's comments (I also don't
always agree with what Rose says and tell her when I don't). Instead
of telling Rose how bad she is writing perhaps Alex should tell Rose
what can be done to improve her writing skills or her website. I'm sure
Rose will have more of an open mind.
Alex
is entitled to her opinion but then again so are you Rose.
Alex,
if you find that you don't like what Rose has to offer on her website
perhaps you should stop visiting her site. Or you could possibly start
reading another or start your own as some others have suggested. What
better way to educate people on your view on the art of dancing and
expression than by telling them yourself. You might enjoy it. This is
one of the reasons that I started teaching.
Rose,
I applaud you for putting Alex's comments on your site. I'd also like
to thank Alex for sharing her views. Even though most will not agree
with you, it may have opened some eyes as to what you are trying to
express.
Just
enjoy the music and don't worry how others dance.
That's
it for this long, and winded message that has jumped from topic to topic.
Live,
love, laugh y Salsa
Rene
Promoter and co-founder of United Salseros
June
12, 2001 -- A response from Alex
Finally....Someone who understood what I was trying to say! Thanks Rene...You
summed it all up in one comment!....Just enjoy the music and don't worry
how others dance!
I
know I was harsh and I never expected my initial email to get posted...but
I was being honest in my own opinion! I know most people must think
I must be mean, but look at what's come out of this...People from all
over have an opinion and that's great! Good or bad!
I
wrote out of frustration!...Frustration for some (not all) dancers who
dance only to be the centre of attention and make the partners they
are dancing with feel inept! Dancing is not an ego trip! There are some
(I will not mention names) out there who do this and that's not cool!
It
is for those people who I directed the comment..."Tu necessitas
una alma latina"...People like that dance without the spirit of
the dance..and it is something that you must feel within you. You do
not have to be latin to feel this. I am not latin born, but I know about
latin cultures and I know the songs, dance, food, and even language
varies from country to country!
I
could go on and on...Like almost everyone...and I know there will be
some of you saying..."Alex, why do you keep on sending commments
if you were so unhappy about this site"...Well, I guess in a way
I started this debate..I am not trying to defend myself, but I am committed
to getting a message across....Dance because you love it... Not because
you have something to prove!
That's
it.
PS..Rene,
you don't dance like a sheep...You have a great lead and most important
you make dancing fun!
June
12, 2001 -- Alex's Letter of Love
Rose,
Don't
worry about a schlep like Alex. I am in a Latin band in TO and am not
Latino. He is just trying get a rise out of you and it seems he has.
Music is an artform that is beauty for all people. You do not need a
"Alma Latina" to truely enjoy Salsa; if that were the case,
all Latino people would dance it which is not the case. Toronto is an
integral part of the nightclub scene in TO. It is taking on its own
size and shape and who knows what new bands and dancers will emerge
out of TO. We are soon to be a mecca of Salsa in North Amercia with
our own style.
Alex - Basically what you have said is the biggest bunch of BS I have
heard in a long time, and until you start a Salsa web page for Toronto
you should shut the h_ll up! We are so lucky to have someone like Rose
dedicated enough to provide Salsa lovers with a web page.
Rose - Listen, I am a musician and I hear one person say " You
are sooo amazing, then the next person tells you you suck !" You
have to get used to that because in the Salsa/music industry there is
alot of trash talk. I think you are doing a great job and I especially
like the calender of events which is very handy.
Alex
- Once again, unitil you make a web page better than Rose, you are just
a trash talking mouthpiece ! So why don't you do a web page about TO
and then I would love give comments about it ! I look forward to seeing
your amazing site !
Since your such a expert on the topic !
Rose
- Keep up the EXCELLENT work !
Later
Paul
June
18, 2001
I think there's been enough criticism back and forth regarding this
topic. Although Alexia could have chosen to communicate her feelings
in a more diplomatic fashion, responding with a very strong rebuttal
will not foster any understanding but rather polarize readers further
into two opposing sides.
Alexia,
I would love to have the opportunity to dance with you (If I have not
in the past). And, just in case, I'm having a bad day and I suck, please
don't say "T.O. Salsa Sucks" as they may think it's "Teddy
Olaso Sucks." Rose, don't you dare use this line on future write-ups!
:)
Teddy
June
21, 2001
You would love the opportunity to dance with Alexia? Why Teddy? So you
can judge and rate her? Having heard the salsa grapvine, ths is exactly
what you did to another female dancer. Apparently, you mentioned that
this dancer was playing "catch-up" with you the entire length
of the dance.
Catch-up? What sort of positive feedback is that? It sounds pretty condescending
and superior; and not to mention that it bugged the hell out of my friend,
someone who does not go out very often, (at least not with the intensity
that the salsaholics do) but who still manages to go out and have fun,
despite all the new salsa styles and moves that have cropped up. For
the most part, she keeps up with a lot of the "regular" dancers.
And they in turn enjoy dancing with her because she radiates fun, laughter,
and is not so busy counting steps, beats etc. If she was not up to your
"standards" that why on earth did you ask her to dance? You
can pretty much tell if a person can dance by looking and observing;
especially if you are an instructor.
From
what this other source says, it was to give her a rating. Rating?!!?
If you would like to respond back, I would really like to hear your
side of the story. Canadian Latina
June
21, 2001 -- Teddy's Response to Canadian Latina
Canadian Latina and friend - please speak to me in person - I do not
respond to grapevines. If your friend deserves an apology, I would not
hesitate to give her one with no excuses. However, please reflect upon
the tone of your comment towards me especially in a public forum where
have you chosen to respond anonymously, and where it would get us if
I had chosen to react with a strong rebuttal.
June
25, 2001 -- Canadian Latina's Rebuttal to Teddy
I chose this "forum" to communicate exactly the same way you
chose to communicate through a third party. I apologize for the tone
of the content, however I did it to prove a point. Next time, speak
to the person directly and offer constructive feedback
-- Canadian Latina
June 26, 2001
My conscience is nagging me. I would like to apologize to Teddy for
bringing this matter into a public forum. I meant every word I wrote;
however it should have been a private matter. I was just so incensed
by the comment made to my friend that in a moment of foolishness I thought
to get even. My temper sometimes gets the best of me and this was not
the
way to do it; please accept my apology. -- Canadian Latina
June 28, 2001
Dear Canadian Latina, We are cool. Teddy :-)
August
29, 2001
Hi Rose, I am writting to you from Ottawa but I am part from there,
part from Montreal. I started dancing salsa 3 years ago and took my
classes in Montreal. I have moved to Ottawa for work reasons, but
I keep on going to Montreal most of my weekends to be able to dance.
A few months ago I had the chance to meet the members of United Salseros
and ended up spending most of my summer in Toronto. I am not surprised
to read the anger in some of your writers' messages since salsa has
made me go through all emotions myself. How many nights did I come
out of a club so frustrated and swore not to go back. Either because
I hadn't danced at all; thinking that it was because I didn't fit
the perfect image of a salsa dancer's body. Or then it would be because
I felt I didn't have the chance to practice enough since I hadn't
danced enough. Sometimes it was because I felt I wasn't up to my partner's
level therefore, he couldn't ejoy our dance. For a while, I danced
less and less and did a lot of thinking.
What was I looking for in salsa, what did I expect from it. After
meeting Teddy and friends, I realized that salsa could bring me to
a point of euphoria when I was dancing for nobody else than my partner
and then for myself. I could be dancing in the back of a bar where
nobody could see us and I wouldn't care as long as I had a connection
with my partner. Toronto style salsa has given me a new string to
my arch, it solidified my technique, it gave me new ideas and made
me understand that whatever the source of the style, LA, NY (had the
chance to spend a few weekends there too!), TO, Ottawa or Montreal,
it is when you accept to put it all together that it becomes a passion.
Through this evolution of my image of salsa, I had the chance to become
in contact with your site Rose and when I miss Toronto too much, I
get on here and by reading you, I feel a little closer to you guys.
Thank you for that.
Even though frustrations are what makes us grow, it shouldn't be taken
out on people in a public place like this, take your own responsibility
in your reaction to other dancers styles, have confidence and don't
judge, enjoy. Oh yeah and for those who don't agree on the dancers
that are very technique oriented don't forget that for some, dancing
is simply moving and listening to music, for others, acquiring another
technical level whether for competition or simply for the sake of
it brings them a very nice sense of
accomplishment. Is that so wrong? Renée
September
27, 2001
Renee´s
comments sums up everything I feel & I´m sure a lot of us
who went thru years learning salsa probably think the same way too.
How do you balance learning proper technique & simply having fun
dancing?? Very often I just feel like going out there & having
a blast without thinking of anything or judging others & being
judged.... I end up dancing with a small group of salseros regularly
& I also dance with some new up-&-comers to see if we click.
Forgive me if I choose to do my dancing this way but that´s
the way I like it most. If I'm not doing my double turns properly
or if my technique is a bit behind now you know the reason why. Salsa
should be fun & everyone ought to remember this. I already have
a bloody taxing job having to work 11 hours a day in front of a computer
& often I don´t want to "work" more on the dance
floor. I´m entitled to a bit of fun & to dance with whoever
I want to.
Salsa
is also like any other sport where people look for playmates their
own level & there´s a lot of "testing" other players
as well as competition so if someone doesn´t want to dance with
you so be it!! Moreover, being humans that we are, we will feel intimidation,
insecurity & rejection & -- let´s face it -- the flip
side is we will also intimidate & reject, & a lot of us have
done so (even if it´s unconsciously). How many times have you
heard: "That guy´s so gross I don´t wanna dance with
him!" That´s just the reality of things. I´ve gone
through it all & it´s not pretty but you see so many things
go on in everyone´s head for so many reasons that you can´t
go on thinking people are judging you or even judge that these people
are actually judging you.
I think
most people are out to have a good time & don´t give a damn
about the way other people dance & they´re only looking
for people they love to dance with. I love dancing with my friends
& some intermediate level dancers but the key is we have to click
somehow- whether it´s emotionally or technically. ( I love giving
hints & tips to my friends & helping them out cuz this is
not really "work" -- this is "play".)
On the
other hand, I don´t remember having ever declined anyone who
has asked me to dance, even when I was very tired (except for Debrah,
of course :) heehee! ) I personally don´t believe anyone deserves
a rejection & if they especially asked you to dance you know they
will really appreciate it. Now whether or not I´ll enjoy it
is a different thing.... Regardless of how I like it -- & I try
not to judge -- if the person is using you to enjoy themselves or
as a stepping stone to improving themselves technically then the dance
is worth it -- & I rationalize it this way. Similarly, when I
feel like "working" it, I ask some Grade A dancers to dance
with me so I can better myself technique-wise. Believe it or not --
there is a salsa hierarchy but no one´s at the top... We all
have different levels & we all have something to learn from each
other.
Bravo to Renee -- I applaud her honest & insightful revelation
of the regular salsero´s mind. We hung out this summer &
she´s more than just another dancer to me. However, I have to
admit that I did not know she was thinking about all this until now
& I also realize most of us have thoughts like hers all the time.
As a friend I´m taking a half hour out of my vacation abroad
to write this little addition to her commentary. She´s worked
hard & with time she will become a great dancer, if only it´s
out of sheer dedication. If at any time I did not ask her to dance
-- or anyone else for that matter (I´m only using her as an
example) -- it´s because I was having a bad day & I sucked!!!
Even with people you click with you might not have the connection
that day. And/Or too tired to work it -- maybe I shouldn´t be
there in the 1st place.... But what can you do when you live in a
shoe (of a salsaholic)???!!!!!!
Arturo Y
October
16, 2002 -- Here we go again...
And finally, we haven't had a little controversy in the last little
while on my site, but lately someone has taken upon themselves to
try and tick me off... and it's obvious they can't do it in person,
so they are doing it anonymously through our feedback form. Well,
I'm tired of seeing these totally "negative" emails for
the past month, and have decided to make it public without going into
all the gory details... Some have said just ignore them and they'll
go away, but obviously they're not planning to go away anytime soon.
Our site
is about sharing our love of salsa dance and music, initially with
Toronto and now as we've matured, with the rest of the World. Our
goal was to create a site that would cover anything and everything
to do with salsa for anyone who wants to learn more about it and/or
wants to catch up on what they might have missed on -- similar to
the experiences I get personally with my salsa friends and via the
internet. Well after two-and-half years, I'm amazed at how passionate
I still am about salsa and hope I never lose it. Nor will I let petty,
jealous people ruin or try to take down the spirit of salsa and what
we hope to achieve with it.
Lately
in the past month, I've been getting anonymous and/or fictitious emails
from someone who's obviously either insecure, jealous and/or just
in the mood to take out their frustrations with the salsa community
or maybe it's just with TOsalsa or me personally. At first I didn't
think anything of it because we rarely get "nasty" emails,
but they've been coming in about once a week in the past month.
The first
one was a fake email address on my guestmap criticizing our website
pretending they were from another country.
The second was a mini attack at me personally.
The third was an email about a Toronto DJ being gay from his gay lover
and if I would post it.
The fourth again was another criticism about our website specifically
talking about the instructors' page.
The fifth was again attacking our site, its content and me personally.
Well, enough is enough, whomever you are, either get the nerve to
speak to me directly or use your negative energy on someone else.
How do
I know it's from the same person? Well, in the computer world, there
are ways to check it out (even if you do post on our feedback form
anonymously)... and it's very sad to see that they are taking this
route to vent their frustrations.
I know
this probably won't alleviate all of the negativity, but if you EVER
hear of people badmouthing anyone in the salsa community that comes
from hearsay and not evidence, please remind them that it there is
room for everyone who works hard at their craft to prove themselves
and it shouldn't be about egos, jealousy, insecurity complexes or
pettiness. And if they truly have an issue with another dancer, then
they should try to work it out together, not just complain to anyone
who will listen and create animosity or cliquey camps.
I love
our salsa scene and what I thought it represented, and I don't want
to see that change for the worse. I'm also very lucky to meet so many
amazing people who inspire me either here into Toronto or from around
the World. Let's keep it this way. Keep the our salsa scene real,
fun, hot and spicy -- not petty! (sorry, couldn't resist).
One final
comment, as quoted from my interview with Rob Capilli of Salsafix.com,
and is quoted on every email by Roy Crisostomo of Salsafanatics.com.
(Gee is there a trend here? They both have the initials RC and both
have websites that start with Salsa and imply how addictive Salsa
is...)
"Keep
salsa alive and never let it die... Remember to have at least one
dance with someone you don't know -- one day they may be your own
dance inspiration; and learn to work together. That's the only way
salsa will live on forever..." Rose Knows, www.tosalsa.com
February 14, 2003 -- To respect or critisize TOsalsa
Hi Rose,
My name is Lou and I’ve been following regularly most ‘discussions’
about various styles in Salsa as a dance, as well as music. It’s
somewhat discouraging to write a memo, knowing that it wouldn’t
make much of a difference and people will continue to feel the way
they feel, tell others what they should like and what they shouldn’t
and teach them what to do and what not. This is my first attempt to
‘change the world’ using TOSALSA as a forum and having
read quite a few heated exchanges of opinion, something makes me think
that it will also be my last attempt. I’ve decided to separate
my message in two parts: This first one I would like to be viewed
as introduction. In my second note I will express my humble view about
the styles in Salsa.
I would
like to complement Rose and TOSALSA team on their efforts and dedication
to keep such website going, trying to be as impartial and professional
as they possibly can. I would like to remind everyone visiting your
website, who criticizes your believes, tastes and approach, that choosing
information and posting it on the website YOU ****gned is entirely
your right and prerogative. I know you can’t afford to say that,
but I can:
Dear
readers, it’s like with TV channels. Some we like, and some
we don’t. Those we like we order and watch. The ones we don’t
like we don’t order and if not given the choice we simply don’t
tune in. The difference between the TV channels and TOSALSA is that
most TV cable stations make a fortune whereas I seriously doubt’
that this is the case with the ****gners and information providers
for TOSALSA. So dear fellow readers, let’s respect the effort
someone is making to provide us with this forum where we can express
our feelings and share our passion and stop criticizing and telling
them what to do. Or better yet, let’s ****gn our own websites
where we can tell the world how thinks are and hope we’ll get
¼ of the audience Tosalsa currently enjoys. That, dear readers,
would be called fair competition and is the very foundation of today’s
democratic society.
It’s
O.K. to have different opinions. It’s O.K. to be different.
It’s O.K. to be able to chose. There is nothing wrong in changing
our own views. Sometimes we feel like steak, sometimes we feel like
fajitas. Some like action movies, others like drama. We shouldn’t
deny something just because we don’t have it or we can’t
understand it. Galileo was executed centuries ago because he dared
to suggest the Earth had round shape. Well, now we know it does.
What I am saying is that it is easier to criticize that to create.
For those
interested to learn about my experience with choosing the ‘right’
salsa style and the right beat to dance on, another note coming up
soon. Lou
Dear Lou, thank you for another Valentine's
Day gift with this lengthy email... you are so right in what you expressed
about not being able to change how people feel; and many forget that
we are all allowed our opinion in this World. You are also right in
stating that if someone feels strongly about what salsa should represent,
then they should create their own site -- more power to them if they
have their own loyal readership. When salsa and the internet was first
discovered -- Salsaweb was the main source of salsa dancing around
the World due to their cityguides. As dancers became more web-savvy
and needed more current up-to-date information on their own city,
we started to see some great city-based salsa information sources
in the past 3 years.
This site was born from the lack of information about our own Toronto
salsa scene over 3 years ago; and once that was established and I
learned more about website design and the internet, I had time to
learn more about salsa dancing and music in general. And then there's
the readers with their infinite enthusiasm for anything and everything
about salsa; and who inspired me to create and/or expand on sections
that salsa dancers all continue to enjoy now around the World.
It was our goal to create a site that shared our enthusiasm and love
of salsa dance and music -- and based on our ever-growing popularity
with our ever-growing readership, we have succeeded and it's happened
more quickly and on a wider scale than anyone could ever dream of
or ask for. Rose
February
14, 2003 --
Hello Rose, I have read that negative e-mail about your web site and
I totally disagree. I have been dancing Salsa for 8 years and I always
refer new dancers to check out your website. I bet if you include a
counter at the bottom of your website people can see for themselves
the number of hits your site receives. -- Richard H, Keep up the good
work!
Dear Richard, thanks for the nice Valentine's
Day gift, it's always nice to get a "Thank You" for something
you enjoy and love to do, put it out there for everyone else to enjoy,
and all for the love of salsa dance and music. Personally, we found
counters cheesy (less professional), and I think the amount of original
content, reader contributions, and readers such as yourself speak louder
than words (or is it a counter?).
February
15, 2003 -- To respect or criticize TOsalsa - response to Lou
I totally
agree with Lou on his remarks about people that use a public forum
on a website to criticize those who designed, host, and maintain that
website. The lack intelligence of such people astounds me. Do they
not realize that while using a feedback form to criticize the producers
of a website, they are in fact acknowledging the usefulness of the
service provided?
People
who criticise others that have sacrificed their own time and money
to provide a public resource are beyond comprehension.
Come
on, you people. If you want to whine and complain, make your own website
to do it. If you don't like the content of a website, make your own.
NEVER NEVER complain about a service that was provided freely to you.
If you don't like it, don't use it. Did you in ANY way help in make
the website possible? Who says you are even entitled to be reading
it? Did you pay for a subscription? Are your tax dollars paying for
the site? Or is the money for the hosting and the design coming out
of some unpaid entrepreneur's pocket ...
Thanks
Rose to you and your team for your efforts and we hope you feel some
of us still deserve to be reading the valuable information you provide
to us on Tosalsa.com -- V
